易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 完)

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Jun
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易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 完)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-26 10:36

玩偶之家

前几天读了 Hedda Gabler 被震撼到了之后,决定去读一下 A Doll's House,虽然此剧大名鼎鼎,剧情早就听别人复述过很多遍,但是跟一句一句地读原著能一样吗?我预料一定跟二手经验不同,然而我完全没想到有多么不同。才看了几页就分分钟有喘不过气的感觉,触及灵魂。不,其实并不是批判父权社会压迫女性那么简单,当然确实那也是成分之一,但更重要的是这出戏跟所有的我喜欢的文学作品一样,展现的是 The way we live, the way we are. The truth. 我们已经习惯到无知无觉地生活,它忽然竖起一面镜子,让我们突然看出了自己的本质,并在这真相之下裂成千百个碎片。

Ibsen 触及的很多议题都是我看见、觉察、想过、而不得要领的问题,被他这样直白地捅出来,常常会感到喘不过气的惊骇,或者仿佛胸口被大锤重击的震撼。先不提女主角 Nora Helmer,开场不久她的多年不见的女友 Kristine (Mrs. Linde) 忽然来家里拜访她。三言两句中就交代了她的历史,三年前丈夫去世了,日子过得颇为艰难。下面这段短短的对话精彩地要死,我来回看了好几遍,大师啊 I love it so much ---
Nora: And didn't he leave you anything?
Mrs. Linde: No.
Nora: And no children?
Mrs. Linde: No.
Nora: Absolutely nothing?
Mrs. Linde: Nothing at all ... not even a broken heart to grieve over.
既然没有爱,她当初为什么会嫁给他呢?Nora 向女友提出这个问题。原因倒是不复杂,Kristine 有卧病的老母和两个未成年的弟弟需要照顾。"I didn't think I would be justified in refusing him." 一个熟悉的处境。丈夫当时有钱,但做的是高风险生意,死后还掉债务就什么都不剩下了。
Mrs. Linde: Well, I had to fend for myself, opening a little shop, running a little school, anything I could turn my hand to. ... But now it's finished, Nora. My poor dear mother doesn't need me anymore, she passed away. Nor the boys either; they're working now, they can look after themselves."
Nora: What a relief you must find it ...
Mrs. Linde: No, Nora! Just unutterably empty. Nobody to live for any more."
两个人没说两句,Nora 就告诉女友一个秘密,前几年他们生活颇为拮据,当律师的丈夫 Torvald 患上肺病,需要到意大利休养。Nora 向人借了4800 kroner,他们去住了一年,终于把他的病养好了。但是丈夫有道德洁癖,极其反对借贷,她就假称钱是父亲去世留下的。最近三年里她把丈夫给的零用钱省吃俭用,克扣自己,加上偷偷地接一些抄写零工,熬夜做,好不容易把借款还了大半。此时是圣诞节,过了新年 Torvald 就要在银行当经理了,他们终于不用愁钱了,借贷也可以还清了。她也可以大大地松一口气。立刻就让人注意的是,这个秘密 Nora 可以立刻倒给多年不见刚重逢的女友,但却绝不能告诉丈夫。她并不以此为耻,还相对自豪,因为这笔借贷 literally saved her husband's life,但无论如何不能让 Torvald 知道。
Mrs. Linde: And you never confided in your husband?
Nora: Good heavens, how could you ever imagine such a thing! When he's so strict about such matters! Besides, Torvald is a man with a good deal of pride --- it would be terribly embarrassing and humiliating for him if he thought he owed anything to me. It would spoil everything between us; this happy home of ours would never be the same again."
Husband and wife. 太太生了三个娃,操持家务,干零工补贴家用,在丈夫收入不高的八年婚姻里同甘共苦,但仍然 he owes her nothing. 同时,一开场的夫妻间对话就是 Torvald 责备 Nora 置办圣诞礼物花钱太多,大手大脚,不会理财,然后从钱包里掏出几张纸币施舍给太太作为零花。Nora 自己也极力维持这个 you owe me nothing 的假象,虽然有时也幻想将来等他们都老了,"When Torvald isn't quite so much in love with me as he is now ... Then it might be a good thing to have something in reserve ..." 让他发现原来自己亏欠了太太,and then what? 没说下去。

我们都知道这点小算盘很快就要完蛋了,借钱给 Nora 的人名叫 Krogstad,他就在银行里工作,过了年就要成为 Torvald 的下属。然而这个人的名声不太好,因为过去曾经做过什么不体面的事情。Torvald 表示等他一上台就会把 Krogstad 辞退,因为 Torvald 是个道德洁癖,容不下有历史污点的下属。正好遇上 Mrs. Linde 在找工作,这空出的职位就顺手留给太太的好友了。可是 Krogstad 不会乖乖地消失,他单独来找 Nora 谈判,要求她说服 Torvald 收回成命让自己留在银行。因为,他手上捏了一张王牌。

这张王牌并不是三年前 Nora 瞒着丈夫向别人借钱那么简单,而是(gasp)她在借钱时伪造了她父亲(担保人)的签名,当时她父亲病危快死了,她不想让父亲知道而病情加剧,并且,女人不能单独借钱,必须有男人担保。伪造父亲的签名是犯罪,一旦揭露出来她夫妻俩都会身败名裂。

(赞叹一下这层层剥开的曲折情节,一只一只掉的包袱。)

“我只是想保护临终的父亲,救治我的丈夫,这也违法?” Nora 惊骇地问。可是法不容情。这时 Krogstad 顺口漏了一句(剧本里到处都是看似顺口漏了一句的台词,但是几乎每一句最后都会 pay off,所以每一句都需要细细研读),"But let me tell you, my own offence was no more and no worse than that, and it ruined my entire reputation." 一失足便永世不得翻身,也许 Torvald 的道德洁癖并不是偶然的。

等 Torvald 回家后,Nora 勉力执行 Krogstad 的要求,跟 Torvald 提出不要辞退他。Torvald 立刻滔滔不绝地对这个臭名昭著的人进行道德批判。
Helmer: Just think how a man with a thing like that on his conscience will always be having to lie and cheat and dissemble; he can never drop the mask, not even with his own wife and children. And the children --- that's the most terrible part of it.
Nora: Why?
Helmer: A fog of lies like that in a household, and it spreads disease and infection to every part of it. Every breath the children take in that kind of house is reeking with evil germs... Practically all juvenile delinquents come from homes where the mother is dishonest.
Nora: Why mothers particularly?
Helmer: It's generally traceable to the mothers, but of course fathers can have the same influence."
当然,这话听在 Nora 耳中,句句都扎在心上,仿佛在敲打自己隐瞒的秘密。但是,实际上,看到后来,我发现可能还有另一层意思。

在下一场戏里,Nora 旧话重提,请求 Torvald 不要开除 Krogstad,这次 Torvald 终于说漏了嘴,坦白了他讨厌 Krogstad 的真正原因:
Helmer: And I'm told he's not bad at his job, either. But we knew each other rather well when we were younger. It was one of those rather rash friendships that prove embarrassing in later life. There 's no reason why you shouldn't know we were once on terms of some familiarity. He in his tactless way, makes no attempt to hide the fact, particularly when other people are present. On the contrary, he thinks he has every right to treat me as an equal, with his 'Torvald this' and 'Torvald that' every time he opens his mouth. I find it extremely irritating, I can tell you. He would make my position at the Bank absolutely intolerable.
Nora: Torvald, surely you aren't serious?
Helmer: Oh, why not?
Nora: Well, it's all so petty.
Helmer: What's that you say? Petty? Do you think I'm petty?
Nora: No, not at all, Torvald dear! And that's why ...
Helmer: Doesn't make any difference! ... You call my motives petty; so I must be petty too. Petty! Indeed!
他一怒之下立刻写信给 Krogstad 叫他不要来上班了,这下子把剧情立刻推向紧急的高潮。

Nora 害怕得要死,但是又不敢坦白为什么如此害怕 Krogstad,难道丈夫看不出她的失态吗?这里作者特狡猾地插了一段关于过去的对话,暗示 Nora 的父亲曾经干过不太体面的事情,也许也是受贿或道德败坏之类的丑闻,政府派一个下级公务员去调查他,这个调查员就是 Torvald Helmer。他去调查了,眼开眼闭地放过了老头子,然后娶了他的漂亮女儿做老婆。所以呢,剧中出场加没出场的四个男性角色里,三个都是各有各的污点,包括满口仁义道德的 Torvald,只有 Dr. Rank 似乎没啥黑历史 ... 关于这个人物我会在后面讨论。

Torvald 以为 Nora 害怕 Krogstad 是因为她联想到了她父亲的污点历史(也许正因为如此才急着开除老熟人?),他想不到自己的小鸟太太能干出什么大件事来。“你别怕,”他对太太拍胸脯保证,出了什么事我会保护你的,"When it comes to the point, I've enough strength and enough courage, believe me, for whatever happens. You'll find I'm man enough to take everything on myself." 就是这一句吹牛,给后面 Nora 的思路和行为留下了伏笔。因为她真信他了。

作为他的长期好友,连医生也相信了 Torvald 的道德洁癖的性质,评价道,"Helmer is a sensitive soul; he loathes anything that's ugly." 这时他得了绝症,快要死了,对 Nora 说,等我不行了,就给你留个信号,你们都别来看我最后丑陋的临终面目。但是这话他只能对 Nora 说,却对老友 Torvald 绝口不提。(这个绝症是 congenital syphilis,是从他父亲那里继承来的。Ibsen 不太懂医学,或许那个时候还没搞清梅毒的病原体,总之他对梅毒的描述不太科学,但的确父亲可以通过感染母亲而祸害后代。)

不出所料,Krogstad 收到了解雇信后大怒,跑来对 Nora 说,我要跟你们拼个鱼死网破,我完了你也别想平安无事。Nora 说你不会得逞的,我会承担全部责任并自杀,你最后也拿不回银行工作,对你没有任何好处。Krogstad 说你自杀也没用,我把你的借条公诸于众,Torvald 一样会沾上污水。他写了一封给 Torvald 的敲诈信,历数他太太的丑闻,然后塞进 Helmer 家门口的信箱里就走了,Nora 快要疯了,因为她没有自家信箱的钥匙,只有丈夫才能打开信箱。

剧情达到 frantic 高潮!Nora 和女友 Mrs. Linde 为了抢在 Torvald 之前拿到这封信,进行了一系列错综复杂的疯狂活动。这时才掉出一只大包袱,原来 Kristine 年轻时跟 Krogstad 恋爱,因为那时他没钱没前途,才选中了别人,实际上他俩各自后悔多年,重逢后又感到了旧情复燃 ... 所以 Kristine 打算跟旧情人谈判,说服 Krogstad 停手。但 Nora 不知女友能否成功,眼看着信箱里的那封信心惊肉跳,已经做好了自杀的准备——她为啥要自杀呢?因为她相信丑闻一旦爆出来,Torvald 会把伪造签名的事揽到自己身上,拯救太太,而她绝对不能眼见丈夫为了自己犯下的罪行而身败名裂 ...

然而在 Nora 和 Krogstad 的对话中,作者已经埋下了伏笔:
Nora: I couldn't prevent it, Mr. Krogstad. I did my utmost for you, but it was no use.
Krogstad: Has your husband so little affection for you? He knows what I can do to you, yet he dares...
Nora: You don't imagine he knows about it!
Krogstad: No, I guess not. It didn't seem a bit like my good friend Torvald Helmer to show that much courage ...
Nora 使尽浑身解数,施展她的一切魅力,拖着丈夫去楼上邻居家的派对等各种借口,才把开信箱的事拖到了圣诞节后第二天的晚上。这时观众已经目睹了 Kristine 跟 Krogstad 重修旧好,并且说服了他放弃敲诈。我们知道危险已经过去,但是 Nora 还不知道,眼睁睁地看着丈夫拿了一叠信件进屋,已经做好了准备跑出去投河 ... 典型的舞台 climax!
Helmer: Nora!
Nora (shrieks): Ah!
Helmer: What is this? Do you know what is in this letter?
Nora: Yes, I know. Let me go! Let me out!
Helmer (holds her back): Where are you going?
Nora (trying to tear herself free): You mustn't try to save me, Torvald!
Helmer: Is it true what he writes? How dreadful! ...
Nora: It is true. I loved you more than anything else in the world.
Helmer: Don't come to me with those paltry excuses!
Nora: Torvald ...
Helmer: Miserable woman .. what is this you have done?
Nora: Let me go. I won't have you take the blame for me. You mustn't take it on yourself.
Helmer: Stop play-acting! (Locks the front door.) You are staying here to give an account of yourself. Do you understand what you have done? Answer me! Do you understand?
Nora (staring at him, her face hardening): Yes, now I'm really beginning to understand.
Helmer: Oh, what a terrible awakening this is. All these eight years ... this woman who was my pride and joy ... a hypocrite, a liar, worse, a criminal!
用人物之间的误会把戏剧冲突推向高潮,然后在高潮极致时恍然大悟,误会拆解,tension dissipates, conflicts resolve ,这是舞台剧的经典手法。用在此处,既充满了震撼,又让我差点笑出来。

所以这里是让我重新审视之前那句关于欺骗的话,关于成天戴着面具,连家人也看不见这人的真面目。虽然 Nora 听着联想到自己的谎言,但实际上说的是 Torvald 自己,而且,很可能他在内心深处不是不知道自己的假象。每天啰啰嗦嗦地对着老婆喊甜心,我爱你,我的美丽小鸟,我有道德洁癖,绝对洁身自好,眼睛里揉不下沙子,人生一切干干净净一尘不染,避免一点点肮脏丑陋。原来都是他妈的放屁。原来都是谎言。

实际上 Torvald 暴露出的真面目还不止是这段。暴怒之后他的结论是 "The thing must be hushed up at all costs. And as far as you and I are concerned, things must appear to go on exactly as before." 一切都必须维持干干净净的体面,虽然他对太太已经憎恶之极,叫她以后不许教育孩子,不能污染了孩子的纯洁心灵。

这时又来了一封信,Krogstad 把借据还给 Nora,剩下的欠款也不要了。他很幸福,开心得很,马上要跟 Kristine 开始新生活了,祝你们也幸福!至此,作者才扔下了关于 Torvald 的最后一个包袱。Torvald 打开信封,欢呼起来。
Helmer: Nora! ... Yes, yes, it's true! I am saved! Nora, I am saved!
Nora: And me?
Helmer: You too, of course, we are both saved, you as well as me.
啧啧这文笔!这功力! :f16:

如果没有这一段,有些人可能还看不清真相,以为 Torvald 在道德洁癖的路上走向极端而已。这一段揭露才是最狠的,表明他的一尘不染的自我形象都是假的,装的,A petty, shabby mask he wears all the time, to everyone, including himself.

最后是一大段 Nora 冷静的离家宣言,这段大家都耳熟能详我就不抄了。

暂时先搁下Nora那一段 feminist 宣言,继续讨论关于讲真话的议题。

从一出场 Nora 就揣着一袋小甜饼 macaroons,偷偷地吃,因为 Torvald 不喜欢她吃糖。她为了丈夫借钱,为了父亲伪造签名,暗地里打零工,直到被敲诈逼到墙角 ... 她并不是为自己的行为羞耻,在独白里多次表示不认为自己做了什么坏事,那么为什么要瞒着躲着呢?很明显他们夫妻俩彼此很少说真话。说实话第一场里 Torvald 教训她钱要省着点用的那口吻就让我立刻鸡皮疙瘩刷刷出来,但 Nora 笑嘻嘻地接受好像毫不介意。剧里有两段看似无聊的戏,Nora 和医生闲聊,对于推进情节似乎毫无用处,放在一句顶三句的这种剧本里好像很奇怪。我想了半天,感觉它们的作用是展现 Nora 的真实面目,她与医生的相处,作用是对比跟她与丈夫的互动。
Nora: You weren't to know that Torvald had forbidden them (macaroons). He's worried in case they ruin my teeth. Still ... what's it matter once in a while! Don't you think so, Dr. Rank? Really I am so happy. There is just one little thing I'd love to do now.
Rank: What's that?
Nora: Something I'd love to say in front of Torvald.
Rank: Then why can't you?
Nora: No, I daren't. It's not very nice.
Mrs. Linde: Not very nice?
Rank: Well, in that case it might not be wise. But to us, I don't see why ... What is it you would love to say in front of Helmer?
Nora: I would simply love to say: 'Damn."
Rank: Are you mad!
Mrs. Linde: Good gracious, Nora ...!
Rank: Say it! Here he is!
后面还有一段对话,Nora 知道医生患上 terminal illness 快要死了,想要问他借点钱把债务还清。但是很不巧医生没忍住向她表达了隐藏多年的爱意,她只好放弃借钱的打算——是的,一般故事里,当女主发现原来男二一直暗恋自己,岂不是利用他拯救自己的最佳时机吗?但是对于 Nora 来说正相反,医生挑明了感情她就无法开口借钱了。这说明她是什么样的女人?这个问题我也想了很久。
Nora: You must keep coming just as you've always done. You know very well Torvald would miss you terribly.
Rank: And you?
Nora: I have always think it's tremendous fun having you.
Rank: That's exactly what gave me wrong ideas. I just can't puzzle you out. I often used to feel you'd just as soon be with me as with Helmer.
Nora: Well, you see, there are those people you love and those people you'd almost rather be with.
Rank: Yes, there's something in that.
Nora: When I was a girl at home, I loved Daddy best, of course. But I also thought it great fun if I could slip into the maids' room. For one thing they never preached at me. And they always talked about such exciting things.
Rank: Aha! So it's their role I've taken over.
And he would be right. 与女仆们类似,他在 Nora 生活中的作用并不是提供一个移情别恋的对象,Nora 一直十分肯定自己深爱着 Torvald。她只是需要有个人能让她以真面目存在,让她不需要假扮成一个幼稚听话的小太太。

高潮降临之前,Mrs. Linde 已经说服了 Krogstad 放弃敲诈 Helmer 夫妇的计划,Krogstad 甚至说,我去找 Torvald 把摊牌信要回来就没事了,不让他看见。但是 Kristine 阻止了他,不——
Helmer must know everything. This unhappy secret must come out. Those two must have the whole thing out between them. All this secrecy and deception, it just can't go on.
这里看上去她所指为 Nora 借钱的秘密,然而我们可以理解隐瞒与说谎的并不仅限于 Nora。对照 Nora 在结尾的宣言,不妨认为这是作者直接对观众的劝说:Stop the lies. Stop the deception. Be honest. Be ugly. It just can't go on like this anymore.

Nora 在“明白了”之后,收拾行李离家出走,临行前跟 Torvald 讲了很长一段话。当然,Torvald 是听勿懂,所以实际上是说给观众听的。考虑到此刻是1879年,近150年之后我们听着仍然不过时,这也许说明妇女解放的进程真是缓慢啊。一般提到《玩偶之家》的评论文章,都是强调中心思想为:Nora 意识到自己被丈夫以宠物对待,没有独立人格,从父亲的家直接进了丈夫的家,一直都是依赖男人,所以她出走,拒绝继续这种生活。这当然没错。但是给我的感触还不止这几条重点。
Nora: At home, Daddy used to tell me what he thought, then I thought the same. And if I thought differently, I kept quiet about it, because he wouldn't have liked it.
This, more than anything, reminds me of myself.

我觉得不用多解释了吧?大家都明白这是真实的,真实得可怕。即使表面上已经精神独立了,但还是处处忍不住想讨好父权/authority/上帝,时间长了根本分不清哪些是内部(自己)的思想,哪些是外部的加诸的。外部未必都是坏的或者压迫的,关键在于我们与它们的关系。我不由得联想到全网删贴禁言的风俗和制度,过了一阵子之后,不需要上面派人来发现有什么可删可禁的内容,下面就自动揭发举报上去了,而且还 police each other,有什么自己看不顺眼的东西,一边举报一边在留言里义愤填膺地围攻之。

这绝不是仅限于女性的现象,但这又是特别的对付女性的现象,从广告里被 airbrush 到瘦高无皱纹的美女模特,到“自古以来”非圣母即妓女的文艺形象,到大老板摸来摸去还要陪着笑脸的企业文化。If she thinks differently, if she is different, she keeps quiet about it.

Nora 偷偷摸摸地吃甜食这个情节让我尤其心惊肉跳,因为 ... This, this has not changed at all. 我认识的美国白女中,没遇到一个没有节食过的,不论胖瘦,不论年纪,不论美丑。

我觉得美国的女权运动与黑人民权运动有很大关联并不是偶然的现象。社会对女性的结构性歧视和压迫是很难说清楚的,不象种族歧视可以用一张黑奴被卖的照片,或者一段白人警察殴打黑人青年的视频那样,一目了然。这是一间漂漂亮亮的温暖舒服的屋子,里面有棵挂满装饰的圣诞树,树下堆满包得花花绿绿的礼物,壁炉中的火烧得旺旺的,桌上摆着热腾腾的饭菜,柜橱里挂着时尚昂贵的裙子,爸爸和丈夫哄着宠着,人人都爱你。This is a doll's house. In this house you can enjoy all the comfort of life.
Nora: I passed out of Daddy's hands into yours. You arranged everything to your tastes, and I acquired the same tastes. Or I pretended to ... I don't really know ... I think it was a bit of both. ... When I look back, it seems to me that I have been living here like a beggar, from hand to mouth. I live by doing tricks for you, Torvald. But that's the way you wanted it.
她出走的时候,不是怒气冲冲地走,而是冷静而深思地走出去的。虽然整部剧都在讨论钱钱钱的事情,而且一开始 Nora 反复唠叨,等丈夫当上银行经理他们就轻松了,她就可以随便花钱享受了,啊啊啊真的等不及丈夫加薪升职了好开心啊;但是这时她并没有详细讨论或辩论回到娘家之后能不能经济独立,她只是表示以后不再拿丈夫的钱了,并且说会自己想办法。这并不是表现她在金钱方面的 naivete,或者为了出走而没考虑过下一步生计,别忘了她已经有过借贷还债一系列的经验,还有一个亲密女友已经努力工作养活一家几口人。不,Nora 的立场的中心是,我要去学习,我要去弄明白这个世界,弄明白我自己。
Nora: I must take steps to educate myself. You are not the man to help me there. That's something I must do on my own.
...
Helmer: Oh, you blind, inexperienced...
Nora: I must set about getting experience, Torvald.
我们这一代受过教育的女性,大概都不需要听 Nora 说,"First and foremost I am an individual, just as much as you are." 这种男女平等的话了。然而,我觉得,她在之后说的那些还是值得想一想的。
I am not content any more with what most people say, or with what it says in books. I have to think things out for myself, and get things clear.
关于宗教——
All I know is what Pastor Hansen said when I was confirmed. He said religion was this, that, and the other. I want to find out whether what Pastor Hansen told me was right --- or at least whether it's right for me.
关于道德与法律——
Nora: I simply don't know. I'm really very confused about such things. All I know is my ideas about such things are very different from yours. I simply can't get it into my head that that particular law is right. Apparently a woman has no right to spare her old father on his deathbed, or to save her husband's life even. I just don't believe it.
Helmer: You are talking like a child. You understand nothing about the society you live in.
Nora: No, I don't. But I shall go into that too. I must try to discover who is right, society or me.
:worthy: :worthy:

我都不能说这是 feminist message. 当社会告诉你,男孩子从来不哭,男人不做饭洗碗带孩子,男人从来不示弱道歉,maybe you too should find out who is right, society or you.



剧情叙述和中心思想总结完毕!最后说两句技巧。

之前读 Hedda Gabler 的时候就被 plotting 和 pacing 的精巧完美吓坏了,A Doll House 在结构方面更加滴水不漏。可惜那时候还不流行侦探小说,否则我觉得 Ibsen 绝对能写出一流的侦探小说。他设置悬念,剥茧抽丝,有条不紊地抖包袱的能力实在是太让人佩服了,并且逻辑缜密,绝无漏洞或断线头,no loose end whatsoever。在这方面莎士比亚的确不太擅长。前几天我跟某戏剧系毕业的朋友聊天,问她是不是有个流派专门要把所有出场人物都用到情节里去,为了达到最大的戏剧化效果,每个人都跟每个人有关,不是多年前的老情人就是失散了的私生子啥啥的关系。她说是有,其实是古罗马舞台剧的发明,传承两千年,特强调 intricate structure,例如 The Importance of Being Earnest. 当然也有不属于这个流派的剧。

玩偶之家里所有的出场人物,除了 Dr. Rank,都彼此有关系,在剧情里起到关键性的作用,真是物尽其用到了极致。例如 Mrs. Linde 开头的作用只是衬托对比 Nora 而已,直到第三幕突然在情节上起到关键作用,没她不行。在 Hedda Gabler 里面也是没有一个人物能够删减的,唯一一个显得有点多余的人物,在高潮时刻突然起到关键作用。相比之下,莎士比亚的剧里就经常有打酱油的小角色,就是砍掉了也不会影响到情节。

不仅人物和情节极其精简,而且台词也是,上面已经感叹过了,一句话能顶三四句的意思,没有一句是废话,所有埋下的伏笔最后都 pay off。

这是为什么我觉得 Dr. Rank 是个颇为奇怪的角色。真要缩短排演时间,砍掉他也是可以的,对于整个剧情没有致命打击。除了让观众看到 Nora 的真实自我之外,我还没有完全想清楚他在剧中起到作用。Rank 的台词毫无推进情节的功能,他对父辈和命运的愤怒与不甘,以牢骚话的形式说出来。也许,他给 Nora 提供了一面镜子,让她看到自己的生命也跟死亡差不多。总之,这个人物的存在,象征意义超过了实用性。

----------------

HEDDA GABLER

玩偶之家写得太长了。后面写短点。

从一开头就值得注意的是题目。题目中女主角的名字是她的婚前姓,Gabler,虽然她还没出场我们就知道她刚结婚,已经是 Hedda Tesman 了。虽然我目前只读过两部 Ibsen 的剧,但已经发现了共同点,戏中都有一个幽灵般的存在,虽然没上场却一直笼罩在大家的头上,这个幽灵就是女主角已经去世的父亲。More than Nora Helmer, Hedda is her father's daughter. 她爹曾是个将军,General Gabler。剧本提供了很多只言片语的边角料,暗示当年 Hedda 在本地的地位和名声。
BERTA(女佣): Most like she'll be terrible grand in her ways.
MISS TESMAN(Hedda 的丈夫的姨妈): Well, you can't wonder at that—General Gabler's daughter! Think of the sort of life she was accustomed to in her father's time. Don't you remember how we used to see her riding down the road along with the General? In that long black habit—and with feathers in her hat?
BERTA:Yes, indeed—I remember well enough!—But, good Lord, I should never have dreamt in those days that she and Master George would make a match of it.
丈夫 George Tessman 一出场就被迅速地勾勒成型。For lack of a better word ... 他就是个书呆子,并且通过学问而谋到前程,才能支撑他的中产阶级小资的生活方式。虽然是个被调笑的喜剧性人物,关于 George 的一切都让我深觉眼熟甚至有亲切感。也许正因为对此类人物的亲切感让我低估了 Hedda 对于丈夫的感受。

Hedda 一出场就来了一段对于姨妈 Julia 的唇枪舌剑,尖锐程度堪比张爱玲,差别在于 ... 我一边意识到 "She's a BAAAAAD woman." 一边忍不住狂笑不止。这个感觉颇有点儿 disturbing 哦。毛姆也很擅长写这种,你明知他不是好人但是忍不住跟在他屁股后面呵呵傻笑的人物。
HEDDA: [Interrupting.] We shall never get on with this servant, Tesman.
MISS TESMAN: Not get on with Berta?
TESMAN: Why, dear, what puts that in your head? Eh?
HEDDA: [Pointing.] Look there! She has left her old bonnet lying about on a chair.
TESMAN: [In consternation, drops the slippers on the floor.] Why, Hedda—
HEDDA: Just fancy, if any one should come in and see it!
TESMAN: But Hedda—that's Aunt Julia's bonnet.
HEDDA: Is it!
MISS TESMAN: [Taking up the bonnet.] Yes, indeed it's mine. And, what's more, it's not old, Madam Hedda.
HEDDA: I really did not look closely at it, Miss Tesman.
MISS TESMAN: [Trying on the bonnet.] Let me tell you it's the first time I have worn it—the very first time.
TESMAN: And a very nice bonnet it is too—quite a beauty!
MISS TESMAN: Oh, it's no such great things, George. [Looks around her.] My parasol—? Ah, here. [Takes it.] For this is mine too— [mutters] —not Berta's.
TESMAN: A new bonnet and a new parasol! Only think, Hedda.
HEDDA: Very handsome indeed.
介绍了 Tesman 夫妻之后,又上了一个熟悉的类型——女主角多年不见的落魄女友,Mrs. Elvsted。两个女友重逢后的叙旧对话,呵呵,进一步展示了 Hedda 的性格。简而言之,没有人会把 Hedda Gabler 和 Nora Helmer 混为一谈的。当时我就惊呆了,并且花了两三天拆解为什么被惊呆了 —— I don't remember the last time I have seen a female character like this, but male characters like this are so common as to be stock characters. 主要惊到我的地方,并不是因为“坏女人”角色罕见,而是因为这样的人物在文艺作品中一点都不罕见,但我所见过的实例全部是男性。

Mrs. Elvsted 在三言两语中叙述了自己过去几年的遭遇。实际上颇有点类似简爱,她去一家有钱人给孩子当家庭教师,这家太太身体不好,后来病死,家庭教师就嫁给了比自己大很多的老爷。这个老爷还是地方警长!
HEDDA: What sort of a man is your husband, Thea? I mean—you know—in everyday life. Is he kind to you?
MRS. ELVSTED: [Evasively.] I am sure he means well in everything.
HEDDA: I should think he must be altogether too old for you. There is at least twenty years' difference between you, is there not?
MRS. ELVSTED: [Irritably.] Yes, that is true, too. Everything about him is repellent to me! We have not a thought in common. We have no single point of sympathy—he and I.
HEDDA: But is he not fond of you all the same? In his own way?
MRS. ELVSTED: Oh I really don't know. I think he regards me simply as a useful property. And then it doesn't cost much to keep me. I am not expensive.
HEDDA: That is stupid of you.
这文笔!我简直看瞎了。事后发觉跟北欧侦探剧颇有共通之处,就是用最少的笔墨传达最多的信息,尤其在刻画人物方面,show don't tell 的教科书,无与伦比的精炼。

二人的对话渐渐引出 Mrs. Elvsted 已经离家出走的现实(“Nora出走之后”的实例表现?)。第一幕的对手戏中,Mrs. Elvsted 与 Hedda Tesman 二人形成鲜明对比,前者显得神经质,胆小懦弱,一惊一乍;后者高高在上,美貌自信,气场强大。例如 Hedda 三言两语就把女友的真实状况套了出来。然而,看看她俩的对话却很有趣 ——
MRS. ELVSTED: So I put together some of my things—what I needed most—as quietly as possible. And then I left the house.
HEDDA: Why, my dear, good Thea—to think of you daring to do it!
MRS. ELVSTED: [Rises and moves about the room.] What else could I possibly do?
HEDDA: But what do you think your husband will say when you go home again?
MRS. ELVSTED: I shall never go back to him again.
HEDDA: [Rising and going towards her.] Then you have left your home—for good and all?
MRS. ELVSTED: Yes. There was nothing else to be done.
HEDDA: But what do you think people will say of you, Thea?
MRS. ELVSTED: They may say what they like, for aught I care. [Seats herself wearily and sadly on the sofa.] I have done nothing but what I had to do.
HEDDA: [After a short silence.] And what are your plans now? What do you think of doing.
MRS. ELVSTED: I don't know yet. I only know this, that I must live here, where Eilert Lovborg is—if I am to live at all.
Ah, 原来如此,我们想,她离家出走是因为她跟 Lovborg 搞了婚外恋。哈,等着瞧吧。

从一开头每个角色,包括新出场的法官 Brack,都在议论 Eilert Lovborg,神神秘秘的,只言片语的线索,观众需要自己拼图加猜想。人人都认识 Lovborg,跟他有过瓜葛旧事,而且对他的重出江湖兴奋不已,各怀鬼胎。他到底是什么样的人呢?Apparently he's brilliant. “At one time they called him the hope of the family.” 然后不知咋的变成臭名昭著的感觉,虽然大家都不肯直说,一味挑逗观众的好奇心。不过根据 Mrs. Elvsted 的叙述,Lovborg 已经改邪归正了,"gave up his old habits",在她的感召和协助下写了一本巨著,the march of civilization,一出版就成了畅销书。但是,"a woman's shadow stands between Loveborg and me",据说 Lovborg 对一个不知名的旧情人念念不忘,Mrs. Elvsted 认为旧情人是个红发歌女:
MRS. ELVSTED: He said that when they parted, she threatened to shoot him with a pistol.
哈哈哈,提起手枪啥啥,不难猜到,这个旧情人是将军的女儿。然而我没有猜到,这短短几句对话,拉出的后续远远不止 Lovborg 和 Hedda Gabler 的旧情那么简单,而是被充分地大用特用(Hint: Chekhov's gun)。

法官 Brack 跑来告诉 Tesman 之前许诺给他的教授职位危险了,因为现在 Lovborg 的书让他又成了学术界新星,Tesman 和 Lovborg 要竞争这个职位了。这消息让 Tesman 陷入恐慌,因为他跟 Hedda 的婚姻的基础就是这个尚未兑现但(他认为)十拿九稳的教授职位,为此他已经铺开了排场,租下豪宅,买下贵重家具,计划分分钟打入上流社会。慢慢地,在台词里与字里行间中,我们模糊地意识到,Hedda “下嫁”给 George Tesman 也是建立在这个教授职位上的,然而这一切都开始动摇了 ...
TESMAN: [Crosses the room.] Oh Hedda—one should never rush into adventures. Eh?
HEDDA: [Looks at him, smiling.] Do you do that?
TESMAN: Yes, dear—there is no denying—it was adventurous to go and marry and set up house upon mere expectations.
HEDDA: Perhaps you are right there.
台词令人惊叹。除了女主角之外,我们可以从台词里看出每个角色脑子里在想什么,有什么意图,但是 Hedda 的台词大多意味深长,自相矛盾,不容易看透,表明这个人物复杂的内心。例如上面第一句反问是在讥笑丈夫自认 "rush into adventures" 的说法,但是第二句却是所指自己嫁给他的决定,或许还有些其它感受。

第二幕一开场,手枪再次出现。总之,本剧的结构不象玩偶之家那么清晰,有明确的悬念牵引着压力越来越强必然崩溃,而是到处散落着很多“闲笔”,开头看起来没有明显的发展方向,而似乎是为刻画人物服务的细节,例如 Brack 法官与 Hedda 之间的调侃对白。
HEDDA: And then, what I found most intolerable of all—
BRACK: Well?
HEDDA: —was being everlastingly in the company of—one and the same person—
BRACK: [With a nod of assent.] Morning, noon, and night, yes—at all possible times and seasons.
HEDDA: I said "everlastingly."
...
BRACK: Not even—the specialist one happens to love?
HEDDA: Faugh—don't use that sickening word!
这时候我们心中的疑问跟法官一模一样,他替我们问出了关键问题:你(和我们大家都)知道 George Tesman 闷得要死,那为啥会嫁给他呢?
HEDDA: [With an expression of fatigue.] Yes, so I did.—And then, since he was bent, at all hazards, on being allowed to provide for me—I really don't know why I should not have accepted his offer?
BRACK: No—if you look at it in that light—
HEDDA: It was more than my other adorers were prepared to do for me, my dear Judge.
作者从头到尾在各个地方埋了很多地雷,都是看似凌乱无规律的,直到最后才爆炸。有点太炫技了,但爆炸时效果卓著。例如 Hedda 说到自己的冲动:"these impulses come over me all of a sudden; and I cannot resist them." 包括她指着一座并不喜欢的房子说要住,以及嫁给毫无感情的 Tesman.

对于戏剧和剧本其实我不太熟悉(不象黑帮电影或者武侠片),总觉得这些模棱两可的台词给演员和导演很大的发挥空间,换言之剧中的人物既有鲜明特征又捉摸不定,可以投射各种不同的定义与揣测,当然最主要的是 Hedda。在她跟法官的对话中能感觉到,两人之间有种默契,共享的层面,是跟丈夫 Tesman 完全无关的领域。Brack 法官几乎是 Dr. Rank 的反面,他坦承自己就喜欢混在别的家庭的客厅里,享受一下家庭的气氛,但自己不用担任任何家庭的责任。或许,反面正面都是同一枚硬币 ...

剧已经过去一半,万众瞩目的 Lovborg 终于出现了!
TESMAN: Let me tell you, I have got hold of your new book; but I haven't had time to read it yet.
LOVBORG: You may spare yourself the trouble.
TESMAN: Why so?
LOVBORG: Because there is very little in it.
TESMAN: Just fancy—how can you say so?
BRACK: But it has been very much praised, I hear.
LOVBORG: That was what I wanted; so I put nothing into the book but what every one would agree with.
BRACK: Very wise of you.
Lovborg 不仅刚出版了一本又叫好又叫座的畅销书,文明之历史,而且刷地掏出一叠手稿,是他的新书,讲的不是历史而是,当当当,未来。高产学者啊,我们似乎能看见 Tesman 变绿的眼珠子。
LOVBORG: Yes, it does; and this one deals with the future.
TESMAN: With the future! But, good heavens, we know nothing of the future!
LOVBORG: No; but there is a thing or two to be said about it all the same. [Opens the packet.] Look here—
TESMAN: Why, that's not your handwriting.
LOVBORG: I dictated it. [Turning over the pages.] It falls into two sections. The first deals with the civilising forces of the future. And here is the second—[running through the pages towards the end]—forecasting the probable line of development.
TESMAN: How odd now! I should never have thought of writing anything of that sort.
HEDDA: [At the glass door, drumming on the pane.] H'm—. I daresay not.
作者在写 Tesman 的时候一定心中有现实中的原型人物,极尽讽刺嘲笑。

这里提的一句,而且只有一句!文稿不是 Lovborg 自己书写的,而是他口述的,让人立刻联想到 Mrs. Elvsted. 这一点最后有 pay-off 吗?Sort of. 但仍然十分隐晦。我有一些猜想但并不很肯定。

当然 Tesman 最关心的事情是跟 Lovborg 抢那个教授职位,马上就问老同学这件事。出人意料地,Lovborg 表示没兴趣跟他竞争:
LOVBORG: But I shall wait till you have received your appointment.
TESMAN: Will you wait? Yes but—yes but—are you not going to compete with me? Eh?
LOVBORG: No; it is only the moral victory I care for.
What moral victory? 可惜 Tesman 欣喜若狂,根本没听见,当然也没追问下去。但是接下来的一场戏 ...

Lovborg 拒绝了Brack 和 Tesman 找他喝一杯酒的要求,这两人去隔壁房间,留下 Lovborg 和 Hedda 单独相处 ...
LOVBORG: [Who has never taken his eyes off her, says softly and slowly:] Hedda—Gabler!
HEDDA: [Glancing hastily at him.] Ah! Hush!
LOVBORG: [Repeats softly.] Hedda Gabler!
HEDDA: [Looking at the album.] That was my name in the old days—when we two knew each other.
...
LOVBORG: [In a tone of indignation.] Hedda Gabler married? And married to— George Tesman!
HEDDA: Yes—so the world goes.
LOVBORG: Oh, Hedda, Hedda—how could you throw yourself away!
这场戏里的表演指导特别多!尤其是穿插着 Tesman 经常进来打岔,两人假装彼此冷淡若无其事,简直笑死了。他俩一叙旧,啧啧,历史与关系就迅速揭示出来,听着就是青梅竹马,来不及真正谈上一场轰轰烈烈的恋爱就 ... 不知道为啥没有。

他俩的对话非常拐弯抹角,隐晦含糊,我来回看了好几遍,只能猜测但不能肯定,是说 Hedda 曾经不停追问 Lovborg 在外面滥交的放荡行为,但她滑不留手。我就不全部抄过来了,大家可以自己去看。
LOVBORG: How could you sit and question me like that? Question me quite frankly—
HEDDA: In roundabout terms, please observe.
LOVBORG: Yes, but frankly nevertheless. Cross-question me about—all that sort of thing?
HEDDA: And how could you answer, Mr. Lovborg?
Lovborg 认定 Hedda 的追问是因为她爱他,要改造他,令他浪子回头。但是 Hedda 却说 "not quite."
HEDDA: Do think it quite incomprehensible that a young girl—when it can be done—without any one knowing—
LOVBORG: Well?
HEDDA: —should be glad to have a peep, now and then, into a world which—?
LOVBORG: Which—?
HEDDA: —which she is forbidden to know anything about?
Hedda 追问的是 sex sex sex. 她在没有妈妈的环境里长大,爸爸是个又骄傲又 rigid 的老将军,她有很多问题不知道该去问谁,只知道都是羞耻。

这时我们终于明白 Lovborg 爱的是 Hedda,而与小媳妇 Mrs. Elvsted 根本没有一腿。
HEDDA: And perhaps you have confided to her something about us?
LOVBORG: Not a word. She is too stupid to understand anything of that sort.
HEDDA: Stupid?
LOVBORG: She is stupid about matters of that sort.
我看来看去,还是没法确定,Hedda 到底爱不爱 Lovborg。也许有一点,但肯定不是全部。至少,作者清楚地表示,Hedda 的纠结的根源,并不是因为她没有嫁给自己的真爱,现在被婚姻挡住了不能追求真爱,这么简单的套路。

Mrs. Elvsted 出现了,奇怪的三角关系形成了,Hedda 和 Lovborg 进行隐晦奇妙的对话:
HEDDA: Ah, yes—courage! If one only had that!
LOVBORG: What then? What do you mean?
HEDDA: Then life would perhaps be liveable, after all.
For some reason, 重读这一段对白,让我联想到周末看的《我的天才女友》中的嫉妒竞争和 confrontation。Hedda 的破坏冲动浮上表面,三言两句便成功地挑拨 Lovborg 喝了两杯酒,并且说服他跟丈夫和法官一起去爬梯,以证明自己不会重蹈覆辙,酒后乱性。

后来的事大家都可以猜到了。然而后来的事又风起云涌难以预测。我很犹豫要不要放出全部的 spoilers,毕竟还是自己看比较惊心动魄。Decisions, decisions ...

剧透警告!如果打算自己读/看剧的同学不要再看下去了!! :rabbit001:

... ...

Lovborg 去跟一帮老友派对,当然旧病复发,喝得稀里糊涂。在路上把手稿给丢了,人跑到 ... 当当当,红发歌女那里去了!手稿被 Tesman 捡了去。Tesman 拿回家给 Hedda 看,老婆马上问, Lovborg 知道自己丢了手稿吗?知道你拿去了吗?Tesman 说不知道,人还迷糊着那,等会儿我去还他。还没来得及呢,Tesman (另一个)姨妈去世,被叫走了,手稿于是落到了 Hedda 手中 ...

Lovborg 发现丢掉了手稿后还以为是在妓院,呃,红发歌女,的家里丢的,对方当然不承认,他就大发酒疯,又吵又闹。这一段是由法官向 Hedda 转述的。充满了冷嘲热讽。
BRACK: Far from amicably, it appears. After a most tender meeting, they seem to have come to blows—
HEDDA: Lovborg and she?
BRACK: Yes. He accused her or her friends of having robbed him. He declared that his pocket-book had disappeared—and other things as well. In short, he seems to have made a furious disturbance.
HEDDA: And what came of it all?
BRACK: It came to a general scrimmage, in which the ladies as well as the gentlemen took part. Fortunately the police at last appeared on the scene.
HEDDA: The police too?
BRACK: Yes. I fancy it will prove a costly frolic for Eilert Lovborg, crazy being that he is.
我很怀疑,在舞台上演出来,能不能保留多少文字上的幽默感,反正看到这段我是没忍住笑出声来。

法官 Brack 向 Hedda 承认他把 Lovborg 看作是敌人,sort of,并不是浪漫意义上的情敌,而是占住 Tesman 家的客厅的讨厌鬼,抢了法官自己的地盘。

这时候 Lovborg 出现了,但是 Hedda 假装不知道手稿的事,Lovborg 太过羞耻,只是旁敲侧击地问。这时 Mrs. Elvsted 也出现了!
LOVBORG: Everything is too late now. It is all over with me.
MRS. ELVSTED: Oh no, no—don't say that!
...
LOVBORG: It is not last night's adventures that I want to talk about.
MRS. ELVSTED: What is it then—?
LOVBORG: I want to say that now our ways must part.
MRS. ELVSTED: Part!
HEDDA: [Involuntarily.] I knew it!
LOVBORG: You can be of no more service to me, Thea.
MRS. ELVSTED: How can you stand there and say that! No more service to you! Am I not to help you now, as before? Are we not to go on working together?
LOVBORG: Henceforward I shall do no work.
MRS. ELVSTED: [Despairingly.] Then what am I to do with my life?
Mrs. Elvsted 与玩偶之家里的女友颇有类似之处,如果没有人让她照顾让她管理,她就失去了生活的意义。但是照顾某种类型的丈夫也不是她们心之所愿。
LOVBORG: Thea—our book will never appear.
MRS. ELVSTED: Never appear!
LOVBORG: Can never appear.
MRS. ELVSTED: [In agonised foreboding.] Lovborg—what have you done with the manuscript?
HEDDA: [Looks anxiously at him.] Yes, the manuscript—?
MRS. ELVSTED: Where is it?
LOVBORG: The manuscript—. Well then—I have torn the manuscript into a thousand pieces.
注意 Lovborg 认为他把手稿遗失在妓院了。他为什么不承认遗失在妓院了呢?

这时 Hedda 也没有承认自己知道手稿的下落。Tesman 去奔丧了,没法当场提供真相。

另一个有意思的细节是,Lovborg 把手稿丢了就宣布以后再也不写了,啥也不干了。为啥呢?他不能重写一遍吗?不能写点别的吗?为什么态度如此绝望涅?联想到之前提到手稿的笔迹并非他手写 ...
LOVBORG: Thea said that what I had done seemed to her like a child-murder.
HEDDA: Yes, so she said.
...
LOVBORG: Suppose now, Hedda, that a man—in the small hours of the morning—came home to his child's mother after a night of riot and debauchery, and said: "Listen—I have been here and there—in this place and in that. And I have taken our child with—to this place and to that. And I have lost the child—utterly lost it. The devil knows into what hands it may have fallen—who may have had their clutches on it."
HEDDA: Well—but when all is said and done, you know—this was only a book—
LOVBORG: Thea's pure soul was in that book.
说实话看到这里我的猜疑越来越浓,尤其是 Lovborg 用孩子来比喻手稿,而把 Mrs. Elvsted 比作手稿的母亲

Lovborg 跑路之前,Hedda 送给他一件分手礼物,你可以猜到是啥礼物吧?没错就是那把手枪。

然后呢,当然啦,契诃夫的枪必然会响。到了这个地步大家也可以预测到 Lovborg 会用这把枪自杀,对吧?这时法官出现了,他报告 Lovborg 开枪打中了自己的胸口,被送到医院快死了。Hedda 感叹说啊,有自杀的勇气,美!
Eilert Lovborg has had the courage to live his life after his own fashion. And then—the last great act, with its beauty! Ah! that he should have the will and the strength to turn away from the banquet of life—so early.
然而并不是!又有反转!他死是死了,却并非自杀!
BRACK: For I must tell you—Eilert Lovborg was found shot in—in Mademoiselle Diana's boudoir.
HEDDA: [Makes a motion as if to rise, but sinks back again.] That is impossible, Judge Brack! He cannot have been there again to-day.
BRACK: He was there this afternoon. He went there, he said, to demand the return of something which they had taken from him. Talked wildly about a lost child—
HEDDA: Ah—so that is why—
BRACK: I thought probably he meant his manuscript; but now I hear he destroyed that himself. So I suppose it must have been his pocket-book.
HEDDA: Yes, no doubt. And there—there he was found?
BRACK: Yes, there. With a pistol in his breast-pocket, discharged. The ball had lodged in a vital part.
HEDDA: In the breast—yes?
BRACK: No—in the bowels.
HEDDA: [Looks up at him with an expression of loathing.] That too! Oh, what curse is it that makes everything I touch turn ludicrous and mean?
很抱歉,看到这里我实在忍不住放声大笑。 :f16:

故事的结尾还抖了最后一只包袱,我就不剧透了。总之就是,跟看惊悚片似的,后面一串一串的意外发展。

把话题拉回手稿上面。很有意思的是,Lovborg 为手稿的丢失呼天抢地,寻死觅活;但在手稿中“注入灵魂”的 Mrs. Elvsted 却并没有绝望,而是掏出兜里的一把碎纸片,对 George Tesman 说,我们一起把手稿重写出来吧,我这里有很多原始材料和 notes,我们一定可以拼出原图的。

所以我的疑心是什么呢?这本关于未来文明的书稿,其实是 Mrs. Elvsted 写的,Lovborg 只是辅助而已,并且署名。但是直到最后,Ibsen 都没有将此事挑明。
Last edited by Jun on 2020-05-15 18:13, edited 27 times in total.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

putaopi
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/26)

Post by putaopi » 2020-04-27 11:57

好看,请继续。

发现“娜拉”的英文名字居然是Nora, 太家常了!“娜拉”这两个字令少年时代的我印象深刻,充满神秘的异域气息,像是神话中被独眼兽禁锢的美女。Nora, 唉,就是普通家庭主妇,同样是被囚禁,被悲剧,完全没有惊心动魄的戏剧性。也许这正是易卜生想说的。

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/26)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-27 14:10

妈呀太好看了太好看了,每一句对白都顶两句三句四句的。今天就能读完第一遍。

据说此剧出版后,Ibsen 在德国舆论的强烈压力之下被迫(!)专门为德国舞台写了个大欢喜结局,让 Nora 为了孩子而留下来了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Knowing
Posts: 32167
Joined: 2003-11-22 20:37

Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/27)

Post by Knowing » 2020-04-28 1:08

我去奥斯陆玩的时候到处看见易卜生的名字,据说易卜生一直很讨厌挪威。剧中批评这种强烈的道德感大概跟路德教不无关系。
他虽然很同情女性,我总觉得看他的女性角色很窒息。太太善良又工于心计,丈夫总是被玩的团团转,虽然女性的出发点总是‘为了我们这个家’。这总是踩到我的pet peeve 。 女性没有精神才华发展自由的时候就会live vicariously, turn to manipulating those around her. 太现实了,看着难受。万幸我们已经生活在女性可以真正经济独立的时代。每次我想到这里都觉得幸福。

他小时候父亲有钱,后来破产(或者接近破产)过,全家卖了房子去summer house 住了一段时间。母亲为操持一个经济困窘的家坚毅隐忍,大概没少干绕着弯儿保护父亲自尊偷偷接受亲戚补贴的事儿。所以剧中总少不了经济困难的阴影。狄更斯有类似经历。一个人的财政观跟童年烙印太有关了。
Nevertheless, she persisted.

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/27)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-28 6:13

别万幸了。里面的那些哪一条不适用于今天的社会?女性要照顾别人才有生活意义,迫不得已失足身败名裂也适用于男性,父权道貌岸然审判他人,本质不过是令人作呕的 petty 虚荣。英国有个女作家出了本书叫做 Why Women Are Blamed for Everything, 被大规模网络暴力:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/ ... ica-taylor

现代中国的文学评论看鲁迅巴金等等名作总是要强调他们描述的是封建旧社会的现实,言下之意是现在好了,不用担心吃人的礼教,压迫的制度,人的劣根性,噗,哪一样也没少哇。其实细看玩偶之家就能发现,Nora 的出走并非只是关于经济上的解放,鲁迅那句出走之后怎么办,也太肤浅了。
Last edited by Jun on 2020-04-28 6:25, edited 1 time in total.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Knowing
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/27)

Post by Knowing » 2020-04-28 6:24

女性的职业选择比那时候多的多,经济独立能力强,可以选择不结婚的时间长的多,即使结婚生子,丈夫的事业对家庭经济状况影响小的多,陪着‘这样啊实在太糟糕了’的同情跟‘啊明天会吃不上饭吗?’的发愁,完全不一样。
照顾别人带来生活意义不是坏事,只要这不是唯一带来生活意义的途径. engage in intellectual stimulating activity vs taking care of my family in need 是很好的互补,象锻炼完要拉伸一样。

Let's put things in perspective .不是说现在已经男女平等,但要说现在女性的处境跟只能当当抄写员家庭教师的时候一样糟,太一笔抹杀过去一两百年前辈的争取了。至少现在妇女借钱不用伪造父亲和丈夫的签名。三十年前的美国女人还不能独立借商业贷款, 五十年前工作妇女还借不到房贷呢。看到不公才会有动力继续争取。看到进步才有勇气继续争取。
Last edited by Knowing on 2020-04-28 6:30, edited 1 time in total.
Nevertheless, she persisted.

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/27)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-28 6:29

赤裸裸直通通的表面歧视和禁锢是减少了,全都是斗争来的,每一步都遭到强烈抵抗。但是剧中指出的各种深层的不平等仍然存在,仍然有意义,仍然照出今天和自己的 truth. 并不是要抹杀进步,而是看得出这点进步远远不够。正因为描绘的一些人剥削另一些人需要以制度和道德进行 justify 和道貌岸然下面的 pettiness,这些都是人性,永恒存在,对于人性,包括自己的人性,了解得不是太多而是太少。
Last edited by Jun on 2020-04-28 6:34, edited 1 time in total.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Knowing
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/27)

Post by Knowing » 2020-04-28 6:33

够不够都是现实处境, we have to live with it. 我们现在所享有的平权都是前辈争取来的,哪一项我们自己也没出过力气。现在的斗争也不要太急躁必须马上见成果,给未来的妇女们铺路,pay it forward.
Nevertheless, she persisted.

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/27)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-28 6:38

斗争只是一个方面,另一方面是看清现实,看清事实,看见自己和人的真相。我不觉得大家看得很清晰。好的艺术并非激励人去冲锋陷阵的号角,而是体会与了解 truth, because the truth will set you free. 诚实的价值,我觉得这是此剧更深的一层主题,而且绝不限于女性。后面会继续讲到。

可惜我去奥斯陆玩的时候根本还不了解易卜生,都错过了追星的机会。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/27)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-28 9:14

说到社会进步,今天在微博上看见一个姑娘转发的内容,哈哈哈现在的姑娘果然比我这代聪明见识多呀,脑子这么清楚,一针扎到动脉。
@突然出现的七尾鲸鱼宝宝
好多人说男同性恋难道就没有生育权吗?他们也想要孩子啊!
这里有个误解,就是男性,无论性向,你们都是没有生育权的哦!
男性只是通过婚姻制度共享了女性的生育权,正常情况下要付出资源(房车),关怀,爱意来获得后代,而精子,真的是微不足道的一部分。

你说他们就是想有一个有自己血缘的后代,不可能,没有,就是没有这个权利。
想要孩子,可以领养。比如摩登家庭里那对同性恋夫夫,你们仍然有抚养孩子的权利,可以享受共同养育孩子的乐趣。
而女性就是天然有生育权,无论性向,她只要想,都可以让自己的血脉流存下去。她有这个权利,而且她用或者不用都是她的事。
而且用“卵妹”这种词来称呼怀孕的母体,这其中的恶意与厌女已经展现得淋漓尽致了,我不认为这种人真的尊重生育权。

女性有个子宫了不起啊?不就是个器官?
是啊,了不起,包括阴/道,卵/巢,子/宫,这些就是了不起,是生命的起源。
天赋如此。
就是这样。
我真实诚恳地希望,身为女性大家珍惜并慎重地使用这个权利,虽然我无从置喙,但是真切地希望女性能够获得来自我本位的幸福,而不是首先作为谁的妈,谁的妻子。
(我称呼学生的家长仍然不愿意叫她们XX的妈妈,而是她自己的姓+女士。)

我真的非常敏感,但我觉得这个也是身为女性的一个好处吧,对痛苦多敏感,就会对幸福更敏锐,对爱和感谢也有更多的体会。
性别是无法更改的,所以就好好享受吧。
这个世界糟糕得一塌糊涂,但是我们会爱上它的。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

豪情
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/27)

Post by 豪情 » 2020-04-28 10:15

Knowing wrote:
2020-04-28 6:24
女性的职业选择比那时候多的多,经济独立能力强,可以选择不结婚的时间长的多,即使结婚生子,丈夫的事业对家庭经济状况影响小的多,陪着‘这样啊实在太糟糕了’的同情跟‘啊明天会吃不上饭吗?’的发愁,完全不一样。
照顾别人带来生活意义不是坏事,只要这不是唯一带来生活意义的途径. engage in intellectual stimulating activity vs taking care of my family in need 是很好的互补,象锻炼完要拉伸一样。

Let's put things in perspective .不是说现在已经男女平等,但要说现在女性的处境跟只能当当抄写员家庭教师的时候一样糟,太一笔抹杀过去一两百年前辈的争取了。至少现在妇女借钱不用伪造父亲和丈夫的签名。三十年前的美国女人还不能独立借商业贷款, 五十年前工作妇女还借不到房贷呢。看到不公才会有动力继续争取。看到进步才有勇气继续争取。
封城期间我终于知道我家厨房里有啥,冰箱里有啥,打扫卫生的在哪儿,精打细算安排生活。知道娃喜欢读什么书,上课在干嘛,各种陪娃读书聊天遛弯一起下厨打扫,不再把家当旅馆,也是非常好的假期。但是我也知道这个舒适的假期和一切运转是靠我的工作收入支撑着。娃们耳闻目睹,不用我说教, 也会懂得。

鲁迅的诺拉出走以后怎么办,不是肤浅,是因为那是第一步,之后还有很多艰难的斗争,革命尚未成功。但是没有第一步,就没有后面的。这是那时候的当务之急。他写的彷徨,就是写照。易卜生的作品有更多层次,更深刻,这个从JUN说的片段里可以看到,继续讲啊,我很感兴趣。
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

Jun
Posts: 25220
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/27)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-28 12:54

对,等我写完这个再来重看一遍伤逝,非常明显的关联。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

豪情
Posts: 19600
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:47

Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/27)

Post by 豪情 » 2020-04-28 13:21

其实换个角度看,易卜生能够看得更深更远,是因为他观察的社会里女性有更多的自主权了。拿朱安和诺拉比比看。如果说有文化有独立能力的,看看伤逝里的子君和萧红。
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

constance
Posts: 23
Joined: 2010-01-31 21:18

Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by constance » 2020-04-28 17:59

我就来ditto一下这个“娜拉” 和 Nora 名字给我感受的天壤之别 :)
以及确实女性在社会上的地位还是有很大可以改进,虽然在西方已经比我们母国好很多了。最近一个微信文章看到印度女性的地位,特别气愤,也觉得很无力。还有去年有个微信文章,提到每天有很多(几百个?还是更多?忘了)鉴别胎儿性别的试管被偷偷从深圳运到香港,以便于筛选。最近看完的那篇基因传,文章末尾也写到:“人类历史上最大规模的‘消极优生学’计划并不是20世纪30年代纳粹德国对于犹太人犯下的种族灭绝的暴行,其实印度才是获得此项恐怖殊荣的冠军,每年都有成千上万的女童死于杀婴 流产与属于看护。” 作者是在美的印二代。这个冠军是印度还是中国,我看值得商榷。

作为七十年代中后期在乡村出生的第三个女儿,因为上面两个姐姐都先后被折腾死了,才凭着我妈的一力抗争得以活下来而没有被丢弃或者送走的(跟男娃生多了的渔民家庭换儿子,已经找好了人家,我妈不愿意),真的有特别多的愤怒。那个年代确实我们那里经常溺死女婴(在尿桶里),大家习以为常。阿弥陀佛。我妈因为这件事(生不出儿子)导致被离婚,在那个时代的乡村,离婚是闻所未闻的。也因而导致她对我有特别多的ownership,几十年各种abuse我,小时动辄打骂哭诉我毁了她一生,威胁要送我回那边去。我因为guilt也同情她,一直忍着,直到两年前给她办绿卡,快拿到的时候她因为小事再次撒泼,执意不要绿卡回国,我从那以后才拉黑了她。直到最近因为疫情才又开始跟她恢复简短通话。人生对某些人来说,真的好难。然而跟那个印度文章里写的情况来看,那边还是更suffocating一些,没有希望。

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-28 18:40

constance wrote:
2020-04-28 17:59
作为七十年代中后期在乡村出生的第三个女儿,因为上面两个姐姐都先后被折腾死了,才凭着我妈的一力抗争得以活下来而没有被丢弃或者送走的(跟男娃生多了的渔民家庭换儿子,已经找好了人家,我妈不愿意),真的有特别多的愤怒。那个年代确实我们那里经常溺死女婴(在尿桶里),大家习以为常。阿弥陀佛。我妈因为这件事(生不出儿子)导致被离婚,在那个时代的乡村,离婚是闻所未闻的。也因而导致她对我有特别多的ownership,几十年各种abuse我,小时动辄打骂哭诉我毁了她一生,威胁要送我回那边去。我因为guilt也同情她,一直忍着,直到两年前给她办绿卡,快拿到的时候她因为小事再次撒泼,执意不要绿卡回国,我从那以后才拉黑了她。直到最近因为疫情才又开始跟她恢复简短通话。人生对某些人来说,真的好难。
真的是,你经历过如此巨大的不幸;你妈妈也是,经历过难以想象的强烈悲伤。不知道今生能不能痊愈。唯有紧紧地拥抱自己,你们还活着,就已经是是惊天动地的伟大成就了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

constance
Posts: 23
Joined: 2010-01-31 21:18

Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by constance » 2020-04-28 21:21

是的,她所经历的不幸远远不止我写的这么多,本来是高材生考上清华被下铺情同姐妹的女生举报,说她家里有两条裙子几双袜子等等,是资产阶级小姐作风。她因为生父确实是地主阶级出身,虽然她七岁的时候就背上得疮因为不舍得看病用了别人丢掉的膏药贴,结果交叉感染发作痛不欲生去世了。我外婆本来是守着家,但是婆媳不和大家庭内斗,解放后又有成分不好被批斗的风险,又有移风易俗不让守寡的压力,天天有人上门做工作,就带着我妈改嫁了去乡下。我妈自觉是拖油瓶,所以少吃多干活,我外婆性子暴烈,是特别能干但是不能受委屈的个性,打我妈很厉害,拿她出气。一心上清华拒绝考虑中专的我妈把清华的通知书塞到锅灶里烧了,本来要自杀,站水里很久觉得不能让妈妈难过,才回来的。在家里发狠做了八年的农活,把自己当成男人使唤。百斤的稻子都挑着走山路去镇上卖,我外婆和三个舅舅以及外公都不用下田,我舅舅们比她小很多。外公也是做了一辈子教书先生不会种田,我外婆也只做家里的家务。到后来文革风声紧了,我妈年纪大了,我外婆害怕让她接着呆家里有人议论,就草草找了一个成分好的(就是特别穷)人家把我妈嫁过去,我妈给我外婆下跪说她不愿意,但是我外婆说她自己虽然是妇道人家,说话也是一滴水一个坑不能更改的。之后我妈他俩打打骂骂从来没好过,生第一个女儿的时候虽然有点失望还是可以接受的,但是他们俩都不会带,一生病就送医院,那时青霉素刚刚进入中国,医生觉得是好东西,就打成弱智了。到大姐25岁(他们离婚后大姐跟着爷爷在村子过)找了同村的一个也是有点不正常的男青年,本来我妈想介绍给我们家那边的村子里的人家,也看好了,我大舅不同意。说当年全家求他们不要离婚都没听,现在已经断了,再这样藕断丝连就没完没了,就没成。等我那个姐姐怀孕生产的时候怎么正好赶上春节,那个镇上的医院人手不够,就去世了,娃没生出来,唉。我妈回去参加她的葬礼,农村习俗还要把肚子里的娃取出来分别安葬,阿弥陀佛。
我那个二姐当年生出来的时候,我妈觉得又生了女儿内疚得不行,就放在一边不管她,然后好像一个月就死了。我妈说以为不会死的,说那个二姐比我还漂亮。到生我的时候本来村里安慰她都说这次肯定是男的(有人同情她给她那个清宫男女表,结果她第一次用看错了,后来给别人用基本都对了),结果生出来是女的,我父亲背包头也不回就走了,再也没回来。然后打了九年的离婚官司,当年在我们那个县城都有名。我妈觉得她两个女儿没父亲可怜,死活不愿意离。我父亲觉得他去了供销社工作,完全可以找黄花姑娘生儿子(后来果然找到了,生了儿子)。
我舅舅们的婚姻得益于我妈的教训,我外婆没敢使劲拿主意,基本上都给了一定的自由。
等我上学的时候,我父亲还去我寄宿的初中看过一次,给我20人民币让我喊爸爸。我没答应他就收回去了,这是他从离婚以后就没付过法院判的每月10块钱人民币抚养费的基础上。然后没几年我开始工作有收入了,他差不多每年去我的工作单位找我,要和我相认。好在我基本上都在外面,没见到,我妈给骂走了。但是真的好没面子,国内那种单位基本没隐私的。我来美以后,我妈搬家了但是不幸又碰到熟人告诉他地址,他就经常去骚扰。后来2015年我回去,那次我妈非要绕路去老家请以前的邻居偶尔给大姐的坟烧纸,他就又收到信息第二天就跑我妈公寓楼门口守着,说这次一定要见,不见我就不走。好在我没住家里,我妈嫌麻烦让我住旅馆的。后来打电话跟老公商量只好打110报警,虽然我妈听信她朋友的话,说警察不会管。我报警的时候只好强调自己是从美国回来的。。。还好那时国内还没那么反美,110很快就来了,两个警察很和气,跟我妈了解了情况。那个人远远看到警车真的来了,躲得没影,从那以后再也没出现过了。那个人后来生的儿子好像读书不咋地,就跟着他在哪打工,估计是要找我拉一把。反正女儿是要被娘家人榨干然后丢一边的,天经地义,真的。
不好意思在Jun的帖子里写了这么多,希望你别介意。

豪情
Posts: 19600
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by 豪情 » 2020-04-28 21:24

谢谢你分享。这些都是实实在在的生活,不是我们从小说里能看到的。

能够走出来非常坚强,值得庆幸。
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-29 6:59

谢谢 constance 分享。把我看哭了(是真哭了不是修辞)。 :crying:

说不出什么话,只想隔着 Internet 伸手过去摸摸你。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

putaopi
Posts: 3678
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by putaopi » 2020-04-29 10:41

constance wrote:
2020-04-28 17:59
我就来ditto一下这个“娜拉” 和 Nora 名字给我感受的天壤之别 :)
以及确实女性在社会上的地位还是有很大可以改进,虽然在西方已经比我们母国好很多了。最近一个微信文章看到印度女性的地位,特别气愤,也觉得很无力。还有去年有个微信文章,提到每天有很多(几百个?还是更多?忘了)鉴别胎儿性别的试管被偷偷从深圳运到香港,以便于筛选。最近看完的那篇基因传,文章末尾也写到:“人类历史上最大规模的‘消极优生学’计划并不是20世纪30年代纳粹德国对于犹太人犯下的种族灭绝的暴行,其实印度才是获得此项恐怖殊荣的冠军,每年都有成千上万的女童死于杀婴 流产与属于看护。” 作者是在美的印二代。这个冠军是印度还是中国,我看值得商榷。
握手握手! 翻译成中文的外国文学作品,在我们身上留下的强烈印记,估计是原作者和译者都没有预料到的。像我们小时候那样,短时间大量新版再版名著译文,果真像鲁迅提倡的“读外国书多过中国书”,也许只是那个特定时期的现象?



谢谢分享你的故事,抱抱你。

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-04-29 13:31

摸摸constance。看来没有父权压制的家庭仍然有控制和反抗的挣扎。
云浆未饮结成冰

豪情
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by 豪情 » 2020-04-29 13:34

父权压制不一定是直接有个父亲在家里。父权社会的压制,父权社会在母女身上的内化。
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-04-29 13:40

putaopi wrote:
2020-04-29 10:41
握手握手! 翻译成中文的外国文学作品,在我们身上留下的强烈印记,估计是原作者和译者都没有预料到的。像我们小时候那样,短时间大量新版再版名著译文,果真像鲁迅提倡的“读外国书多过中国书”,也许只是那个特定时期的现象?
现在翻译更加蓬勃。全球大小书展都有出版商去,看到流行的,马上翻译成中文。比英文里的翻译图书多多了。

看Jun 的引用段落,玩偶之家我绝对读过,但是完全没有Jun 读出这么多细节。估计我就没读懂。看上去 Nora 的父亲就是个类似Torvald 的。Nora 从小学习那就是爱。从父权家庭顺利进入夫权家庭。
云浆未饮结成冰

constance
Posts: 23
Joined: 2010-01-31 21:18

Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by constance » 2020-04-29 16:45

豪情 wrote:
2020-04-29 13:34
父权压制不一定是直接有个父亲在家里。父权社会的压制,父权社会在母女身上的内化。
是呀就是这样的,豪情很犀利。我自己过了好多年才琢磨出来她的心理是这样的。她极度憎恨自己的女性身份,自己把自己定位成男性,也沾沾自喜是我的“严父”,虽然在她情绪上来伤心哭闹要我倾听安慰的时候又把我当小棉袄使唤了。“爱”屋及乌厌弃我的女性身份,她心里是极度崇拜男性的。后来我外公找关系在乡中给她找了代课教师的工作,她很努力也教的很好,尤其喜爱那些贫苦家庭好学的男生们。我可以感觉到她从发自内心地爱他们,和对我的凶狠面目完全不一样,虽然她号称是为了我好才对我凶,不然她为什么不跟路人吵?她向往男权社会的bully统治者形象,在教师和学生这种有绝对权威的关系里才觉得安全,不受威胁。虽然我很早就出来工作养她,几十年来早就远远超过她对我的付出,她仍然觉得我欠她至深,无以偿还,她自己说的。至于她打我,那她妈还打她呢!甚至后来延续到试图继续bully我娃,我难得大老远专门带回去给她看的,我从那就慢慢觉醒了。其余种种,也不罗嗦了,总之大概是世界对她的亏欠,都理应我来弥补,因为我比她强比她幸运就该被她虐,或者用她自己的话来说“把我搞得好好的”。看她把自己的人生过得这么一塌糊涂,无法挽救,真的很难受。不过我想她大概跟任何人接近都会感到威胁,最好就是自己一个人离得远远的呆着,虽然心里无比渴望得到爱。因为从来没有得到过,所以贪得无厌,也不会正确地去爱任何人,包括她自己。社会对人的影响太大了,个人的力量微弱。

豪情
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by 豪情 » 2020-04-29 17:47

要摆脱这些烙印和枷锁是非常困难的。她也值得同情。但是你要先保护好自己才能同情她。
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

豪情
Posts: 19600
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:47

Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/28)

Post by 豪情 » 2020-04-29 17:48

回到正文。Nora和rank的关系就是传统的骑士精神精神恋爱。没有啥值得奇怪的呀。不足以变成实质关系或者拯救自己。这个让我想到阿加莎的啤酒谋杀案。女主角老公是一个画家,和模特恋爱,婚姻到了崩溃边缘。女主角有一个邻居是她长年的骑士。但是他害怕女主离婚要他接盘,而且还疯狂爱上了模特。所以在女主角老公被模特毒死以后,骑士和别的人一起隐瞒真相保护模特,女主背着谋杀犯的罪名死去。

骑士就是这样的。没有大家以为的那么粉红。
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(抗体牛 4/29)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-29 19:31

Knight in the shining armor 的俗套确实是这样的,然而在这个 feminist 剧里面,一切都不是俗套的那个套路了,当 Dr. Rank 表白时,Nora 立刻打消了向他借钱,给他一个机会拯救自己的念头。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

constance
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by constance » 2020-04-30 9:49

谢谢Jun的仔细分析,我之前并没有看过这本书,我想里面的message对现在的很多女性来说,仍然是非常贴切的。发散地说,我去参观格林威治天文台的时候,看到他们家族几百年前的女性的肖像,也是因为有气象方面的天赋,当时就感叹当年的英伦高层社会已经对女性的才华很宽容了。

Knowing
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by Knowing » 2020-04-30 12:51

constance 保护好自己再考虑妈妈。她已经是社会悲剧的产品,你不能重复了。


不能面对真相的人,我见过不少, 有一类是很逼真的撒谎者,被揭穿时比受骗的人更痛苦。更多例子是害自己,迟迟不肯面对失败,以至于拖的无可补救。
Nevertheless, she persisted.

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-30 12:57

Constance 的妈妈嫉妒她的幸运,说起来也是可以理解的一种心情。当然理解不是纵容。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

constance
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by constance » 2020-04-30 16:51

嗯嗯谢谢各位关心提醒,我想写出来也是一个治愈的过程。其实我不是不能接受我的付出,所谓以身布施,如此而已。只是被她发自心底地恨,虽然她自己不承认,但是我非常明显可以感受到,是很痛苦的,尤其在小时候。现在慢慢学着放下 there is only so much one can do.

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-05-01 1:28

祝constance 放下包袱。

Jun 写得好看。我觉得还是有进步的吧。问题虽然一直都存在,但是对比一百五十年前,今天的人可以清楚地说出这是社会结构性的问题,从父权到夫权。今天的妇女可以清楚地说出自己想要什么,社会需要什么样的改变。在整个社会的重度洗脑中,哪怕人们看到了问题,也很难说出自己想要什么。
云浆未饮结成冰

Knowing
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by Knowing » 2020-05-01 1:45

constance 太不容易了。孩子不理解自己为什么这么急于讨好父母很正常,大概要自己成年,甚至当了父母后,看到自己在幼年孩子面前绝对的权威才会明白。能从小不这么想的得是sociopath 吧。 父母的看法永远会不成比例的影响我们。就算他们已经不存在了也一样:‘如果我爸爸妈妈看见,会怎么想’。 这种深刻烙印不是想抹就可以抹去的。We will have to live with it. 但是面对了来源,你父母本身的缺陷,带着一粒盐审视,就是治愈的开始。

性别压迫,阶级压迫,种族压迫,社会设置的障碍都是实实在在的。洗脑是最后一步,尤其在性别压迫中,比较重视被压迫对象的柔顺程度,面前只有一个(包装成好选择的)坏选择和几个更坏的选择。jun 说的对,洗脑的影响力比实际障碍遗留更广。然而洗脑并不是唯一的障碍。娜拉跑出去想弄明白这个社会,所发现的真相会是相当恶劣的。

相对来说,我们现在面前的选择比娜拉时代又多又好,再过一百年的人看来肯定也都是坏选择。(希望如此!)
Nevertheless, she persisted.

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by Jun » 2020-05-01 7:14

进步当然是,很明显的。不过姐妹们需记得,进步都是一点一点斗出来,抠出来,抢过来的,没有一步没有阻力。一旦停止逆流而上,就会被反动势力复辟。最近在这方面感触蛮深的。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

constance
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by constance » 2020-05-01 9:56

我觉得我能survive下来,甚至过着基本正常的人生,从根底上做一个善良的人,是得益于我幼年时在外婆身边长到上小学才回到我妈身边。因为她那时在忙着打离婚官司。而我的舅舅们都已经在恢复高考后纷纷考走了,离开那个村庄,我外婆因而有空,心情也比较好,看到了家族的希望。虽然我外婆和我妈个性不合,但很喜欢我,我外公已经退休多年,还教我认字,奖励红糖水给我喝。。。这些简单的记忆当时不觉得啥,回到我妈身边被她又打又骂,简直懵了,才知道珍贵。我的counselor也是说,好在那几年给我比较好的role model。我看我妈那样不快乐,决定尽自己的力量先让她快乐,真的非常清楚地记得我的这个decision making moment。好在因为知道这样的个性不正常,也不是像她所说的那样都是我的错,自杀的念头无数次crossed my mind,但都只是想想而已。觉得自己一无是处让她一生不幸也无法弥补,难道不是只有死了才能给她清净?the least I could have done. 本来我以为她老了能爆发力小一点,能终于珍惜子女亲情,没想到她老了更加自怜自艾,觉得人生没希望了,更应该躺着被我pamper。我让她不要心心念念抱怨别人对她怎么怎么不好,其实教会那些老太太们对她我看都很好,不知道哪里又触发了她脆弱的神经。她就恶狠狠地说我都七十多了你还要我改,其他种种不堪撒泼的样子我都完全没想到,闹了两周多,期间还给她租房搬家,花钱都不提了,各种想不到的drama。租房后第二天大清早她打电话给她所有在这边认识的人说要死了,我赶快接她去诊所,急诊医生检查一切正常,之前我朋友的诊所看了她还看不上,一定要给白人医生在大医院看过才放心,不然当我糊弄她。绿卡也不要了,虽然就差30天就可以拿到了,说我要命还是要绿卡?敢情我给她办绿卡是要她命来着。我只好赶快买当天机票,找北京朋友接机,万幸我朋友晚睡,联系上了。我一个阿姨在德州,把房间都准备好了说接她去住一个月,我紧急买了德州机票,结果她当天早上说血压高,做飞机会死。。。浪费$685单程德州机票。当她终于走了以后我收拾她房间的垃圾,看到我给她精心选的礼物她都没拆丢下了,提醒自己永远记得这幕,以后别再心软脑子不好使,因为奢望一点母爱就再被折磨利用。如果只有我自己也还好点,为了娃也不能再继续下去了。我老公一直脑子非常清醒,只是对我的执念无可奈何,我自己也很无奈。简直要吐血三升,今生父母缘薄,好在朋友缘分一直都不错,聊以慰藉。唯一的好处是给我两个有类似经验的女友参考,她们的妈妈们也是各种扭曲,但是比我妈都好多了,其中一个也是逼着女儿给办绿卡,我朋友本来犹豫,后来终于拒绝了。

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by Jun » 2020-05-01 14:15

constance,你妈妈的苦难和不幸,显然来自社会和家庭,以及历史和命运,你不是她的苦难的根源,也没有能力解除她的痛苦。你也有你的创伤,可惜她也没有能力治愈你。你希望能跟她有更亲密的关系,大概她也很想,但这种事就跟历史和命运一样,不是个人渺小的意志就能控制的。Take a deep breath, and mourn.

世界上就是有这么多遗憾和缺失,我们能改变的又那么少。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

constance
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by constance » 2020-05-01 15:46

谢谢Jun安慰开导,是这样的,只能accept and move on. 悲剧能不在下一代身上重演,就已经很好很好了,已经很感恩了。

Knowing
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(玩偶之家完)

Post by Knowing » 2020-05-02 0:26

你不需要感恩也不需要一直内疚没有帮到妈妈! 这个世界又大又混乱,很多超过我们能力范围的问题,有多大头戴多大帽子,做不到的事情承认做不到,move on , 去做更有建设性的事情,就够了。父母是受历史和社会局限重男轻女吸血鬼,还是生理心理导致的酗酒吸毒病,都不是孩子导致的,或者能够控制,能够帮助,能够改变的。

我前阵儿看了一半的samantha power 自传(不好意思还没看完写完读后感)里,她爸酗酒,她妈毅然带着孩子跑到美国,然后她爸喝酒喝死了。她一直内疚责怪自己:
她终于面对童年创伤,父亲的死和父母分手,至今在影响她。尤其是她深深压抑在内心的想法:如果我和我弟弟留在读不了,我爸爸就不会死。她一直在潜意识里为父亲的死责怪自己。她一直接受酗酒是病,父亲本人无能为力,所以拯救父亲的职责属于她。现在,在种种帮助下,她终于能够面对:童年的自己是无助的,没有能力干涉成年人世界。
另一本漫画书hey kiddo 也是自传,作者妈妈是个吸毒者,给他带来的童年创伤。比较早外公外婆就把他接过去抚养。
http://www.fabvalley.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8014
在他准备出此书时,妈妈终于OD 去世. 他去妈妈家找他结婚时妈妈穿的漂亮裙子, 想让她最后穿着走. 妈妈的男友两眼迷离的来开门, 进入房间到处是针头毒品, 椅子上抽屉里还搁着枪, 他意识到自己背对着妈妈的男友, 随时可能被抢劫或枪杀, 想:我这是干什么?我有两个年幼的孩子, 我对他们有责任. 赶紧走了. 后来知道那些枪都是仿真玩具枪.
最后他说: 年轻时他曾质问妈妈:你为什么选择毒品不选择我? 现在当然不会了, 毒瘾是一个疾病, 希望事情不同也没有用. 他懂得珍惜妈妈的爱, .但是童年创伤对他也有很多好处,妈妈浪费自己的艺术天分, 所以他特别勤奋特别努力的追求目标. 他很幸运有外公外婆的养育. 他在接受治疗, 知道有很多人在suffer 类似的痛苦, 所以希望这本书能够让更多人得到安慰和帮助.
个人的意志在历史社会面前渺小,在你的新生家庭和你的孩子生活里是巨大的。 原生家庭无法选择,新生家庭是自己选择,一手一脚建立的。你走了那么远做成了那么多事,漂洋过海在陌生大陆扎下根过得好好的,不再是原生家庭里弱小的孩子,你是新生家庭里做出同等贡献的伴侣,握有天大权力的家长。时时记住你不再是无助的受害者,不再是需要被妈妈肯定需要被爱被赞许的弱小儿童。记住你控制着自己的着新生家庭目的地的一半方向,你的priority是自己和现在的家庭,你妈妈就不能再伤害你和你的新生家庭。

Jun wrote:
2020-05-01 7:14
进步当然是,很明显的。不过姐妹们需记得,进步都是一点一点斗出来,抠出来,抢过来的,没有一步没有阻力。一旦停止逆流而上,就会被反动势力复辟。最近在这方面感触蛮深的。

当然!所以不斗争是不行的,并不是我特别上进特别有斗志特别爱吹号角拉着大家冲锋陷阵,我想原地踏步满足现状,敌人还不肯呢,过去四年太清楚了!
Nevertheless, she persisted.

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 5/4 cont.)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-05-05 2:13

Hedda Gabler 太逗了。我一定要读。Jun 写长点吧。
云浆未饮结成冰

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 5/4 cont.)

Post by Jun » 2020-05-05 6:53

笑嘻嘻 wrote:
2020-05-05 2:13
Hedda Gabler 太逗了。我一定要读。Jun 写长点吧。

在古登堡上有英文版,序可以不用看,又啰嗦又没劲。
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/4093/4093-h/4093-h.htm
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

constance
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 5/4 cont.)

Post by constance » 2020-05-05 9:47

是的,多谢Knowing鼓励,我是希望可以做"去做更有建设性的事情"的。如果救不了她,能对别人的生活多一点impact也是好的。自己的小家,通过多年努力,基本上摆脱了历史包袱,达到比较满意的程度。时不时还是会有sadness袭来,也只能慢慢学习怎么克服了。
回到话题上来说,昨天我还鼓励一个朋友,她因为疫情要在家照顾两个女儿,老公工作太忙,她打算辞职。她大老板offer给她半职机会在家上班,她觉得过意不去没接,我给她打电话做了很久的思想工作,她总算想通了。打算到九月都半职在家,然后回去全职上班。她婆婆是农村人,之前因为她生了两个女儿,又没工作,意见非常大,对她造成很多困扰。这份工作也是我三年前无意推荐她去结果她做的非常好非常努力,公司上下都很赏识她,她自己也是很热爱的。我劝她为了自己的sanity也要每天留几个小时给工作时间,不然很无聊的。老板既然已经主动offer这个折衷的机会,为啥不接呢?她说担心组里的同事们有意见,后来她问了直属老板,老板高兴得都要哭了,连忙同意了。 :-D

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 5/4 cont.)

Post by Jun » 2020-05-05 11:54

悲伤是人的正常感情呀,不需要克服。就算没什么理由人也会时不常地感到忧郁和悲伤呢,更何况有充分的理由的时候。(这话听着就不太对,不存在不充分的理由,任何理由都可以,没理由也可以感到悲伤,前天还跟人聊到少年维特的烦恼。)

前两天李松蔚的专栏文章里有这么一句我觉得特有趣(funny because it's true):
没必要约束自己的心态失衡。约束自己是一件特别费力的事。你已经比他们差了,吃着亏,还要费时费力学习怎么约束自己,凭啥?连失衡都不能痛痛快快地失衡了吗?哪有这么霸道的?没事,你就失衡你的。
总有人在没完没了地宣传着积极向上的心态(例如,咳咳,后浪),能把人给烦死。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Knowing
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 5/4 cont.)

Post by Knowing » 2020-05-05 15:03

人像一个池塘,情绪像水鸟,什么情绪来了都是正常的。只要知道过一阵儿这个情绪会走那个情绪会来,不要陷无穷尽的自我责备和绝望的循环,那就还在managable 范围之内。
过去四年我经常对社会感到绝望,怀疑人类前途。然而我又不打算死,没绝望多久就又吃吃喝喝的活下去了。
Nevertheless, she persisted.

putaopi
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 5/4 cont.)

Post by putaopi » 2020-05-06 13:45

Lyric Hammersmith theater 五月二十号在YouTube 放印度版本的“玩偶之家”,

https://lyric.co.uk/our-home/lyric-life ... e-for-free

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 5/4 cont.)

Post by Jun » 2020-05-06 19:52

putaopi wrote:
2020-05-06 13:45
Lyric Hammersmith theater 五月二十号在YouTube 放印度版本的“玩偶之家”,

https://lyric.co.uk/our-home/lyric-life ... e-for-free
期待! :heartpump:
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

豪情
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 5/6 cont.)

Post by 豪情 » 2020-05-10 19:26

越写越精彩了。
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 完)

Post by Jun » 2020-05-15 16:34

Hedda Gabler 讲完了。

I feel like Ibsen destroyed several romantic tropes in this play. Several!
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

豪情
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 完)

Post by 豪情 » 2020-05-15 17:36

北欧真是进步多了。想想那是多少年前。
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 完)

Post by Jun » 2020-05-29 11:10

因为跟了 National Theatre 的油管频道,发现他们过去贴了几段跟易卜生相关的视频,promote 当时 Ruth Wilson 主演的 Hedda Gabler。

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTLz2-I ... ej&index=2

当然每个人对每个剧本都会有不同的理解,剧本给读者和排演者的想象改编空间远大于小说。不过我总觉得一色的男导演男编剧来改编玩偶之家和 Hedda Gabler 很成问题,里面玩偶之家的导演居然说难以理解高潮戏中丈夫 Helmer 一听见不用还钱了马上对老婆转怒为喜的态度,这有啥难理解的??我觉得女导演肯定能理解。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

笑嘻嘻
Posts: 21161
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:00

Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 完)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-05-29 13:41

Jun 有没有看前言。我原先看中文小说的习惯是先读前言,读到不耐烦才开始读正文。这次欣喜地发现Hedda Gabler 有前言,就高兴地先读前言。结果被剧透了,躲过了你这里的剧透,没想到在前言被剧透。也不是完全剧透,而是说在易卜生大概从当年的两个社会新闻中得到了灵感。

易卜生的戏剧本身比前言好看很多。刷刷刷地翻页,感觉...象看现代流行8点档的家庭邻里剧。难怪Hedda Gabler 一写出来就获得了国际性成功,在多国舞台上演,也就是那时候没有电视剧可追。受舞台剧的布景和时长所限,从一开始,就人物冲突不断。至少在前半部分,我并不觉得Hedda Gabler是个坏女人,我觉得她很正常。然后我反复想Jun 说很罕见在小说中出现坏女人。后来想明白Hedda 这种女性人物,在丑闻的边缘疯狂地试探,一般是被男女作家怀着妒忌心用嘲讽口角写的配角。女主角无论是在男作家和女作家笔下都倾向于集中人类真善美的优点。对,所以我有看八点档的感觉,因为八点档虽然格调不高,但是里面的女性人物还是有不那么真善美的。

在前言中,评论家说:整个setting,还有最后出现的“峡湾”都非常北欧,所有配角都具有北欧特征,但是Hedda Gabler 则超越了任何本地特征,是国际化的。“就是说我们周末约出来吃饭的十个女孩里九个是Hedda Gabler。” 行吧,你就吹吧,Hedda Gabler 明明是个女神款,你约9个出来。虽然该评论充满了男性自尊,但他的意思到也没错,Hedda 是个非常现代真实的人物的,跨越了国家民族时间界限。但我的意思是时间根本没有过那么久,社会结构没有变那么多,所以Hedda 仍然有其代表意义。因为戏剧中有些其他元素已经明显不再跟现代生活相关,需要想象一下。

比如,对荣誉的追求。Lovborg 这个人从现代观点看,怎么也看不出有至于声名狼藉到,整个上流社会都对他关闭大门,谁家都去不了的地步。眠花宿柳确实是丑闻啦,政府职位不能给他是肯定的,但是人人都象避大麻疯一样避开他,以至于要荣誉死亡挽救名誉(大概包括家族和个人),这在现代社会就不可想象。尤其是可以看出Hedda 对荣誉死亡有一种日本人对死亡的美的追求。

Hedda 这个人物非常丰满,很令人同情。她是龙困鱼池。她是一个善于周旋于各色人等之间的人物。如果社会允许她的志向是从政,她甚至想了一下要不要推书呆子老公从政来代替她自己的理想生活。她对社会对已婚妇女的期待和条条框框毫无兴趣。但是她的悲惨的地方是对条条框框认识得太清楚,(也所以她能明白自己与之对话的所有人在想什么。)她可以三言两语套出话来。不幸,不仅书呆子老公个性上不适合从政,从政在当时还需要有优厚的家底。这是她一辈子逃不掉的困境。我并不认为她是坏女人,是因为一开头的老公姨妈的帽子风波,她的确是故意的。但是她清楚地听明白了姨妈和老公对她这个新媳妇身份的期待。老公父母双亡,全靠姨母养大,所以姨妈又是爹又是妈,新妇尚未出场,姨妈先跟老仆忧虑:花钱太多,太能造,我家金童怎么承受得起。在又当爹又当妈的姨母眼中,这个侄子是天下至宝,值得最高的礼遇。另一个濒死的姨妈在久病的床上也要把侄子的旧绣花拖鞋缝好。哦,这个含辛茹苦养大的孩子拿到了什么国外大学的PHD!他娶了将军的女儿!他一定会在可见的未来飞黄腾达的!新妇怎么怎么能造呢?买最好的房子,新房子的购买是姨妈和后面的大男配 Brack 法官一手承办,两个姨妈抵押了自己的退休金才买了家具和地毯。新妇居然一回家就让老仆把家具上的蒙尘布都揭去。我很理解Hedda 简直要故意跟姨妈作对。老公也是一副凤凰男的心态,不停地重复:我觉得你现在是家庭一员了,你一定能理解姨妈对我的好。她们真好。你也真好。当然Hedda 这样的人精不会看错人,老公的确又永远站在她一边,在姨妈不停的旁敲侧击想让老公敲打敲打新妇,老公永远一心赞美新妇。但当老公一暗示 Hedda 可能在蜜月旅行中怀孕了,姨妈马上尽弃前嫌:啊,吾家有后!新妇马上母凭莫须有的子贵。八点档吧?!

Hedda 酷爱自由,对家庭生活不屑,但是她图有有身份的爹,却没有相称的家身。经济上没有来源。要维持上流社会的生活,只有结婚一途。结婚对她来讲就是必须的职业,与爱情无关。她对此非常清醒,跟传统的爱情小说女主角不同,她从来不追求爱情。社会对她这样有才干的女性的唯一许可是沙龙女主人。但是老公的收入忽然无望,沙龙是没有了的。她貌似也接受了社会允许的沙龙女主人的理想,但是她其实对调情并没有太大兴趣,也跟任何人的爱情没有兴趣。书呆子老公能够提供她上流社会的生活,但也止于“上流社会的贫民”。她只是在年龄没有大到成为老处女丑闻之前,给自己找到了最佳出路。她帮助了丈夫,最后将军的铁血,不能接受用自己的未来自由来做为代价,终于再次选择了自己的命运。

易卜生仍然是写了一个女神。谁有本事约九个女神出来周末吃饭。后世评论家是从易卜生在同期给友人写信中推测易卜生的想法。有趣的是,易卜生是个花蝴蝶。他在后世推算他写Hedda 期间,短暂地在全家在阿尔卑斯山(?)度假期间,认识了一个年轻女性,在短时间内给该红颜知己写了一堆信。作家写信给萍水相逢的红颜知己,都是这么掏心掏肺,把写作的心路历程纷纷呈上。这在现代社会可被小报挖掘成小丑闻呢。可见当时的社会婚姻是一种企业,大家集体认同感情可以乱飞一下,只要没有实质的丑闻。易卜生把Hedda写得这么好,难保自己没有代入成分。
Last edited by 笑嘻嘻 on 2020-05-29 18:59, edited 5 times in total.
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Jun
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Re: 易卜生戏剧(Hedda Gabler 完)

Post by Jun » 2020-05-29 14:11

我几乎从来不看前言,这一部看了一点就甩到一边。 :mrgreen:
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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