TV: Deadwood (season 3)
TV: Deadwood (season 3)
Although David Milch said one of the purposes of art is to bullshit power into leaving people alone, to me at least one of its functions is to learn that I am not alone. More than the first two seasons, Deadwood season 3 -- the inconclusive final season of the series -- convinces me that I understand what he's getting at.
The central dramatic thread throughout this season is the towering power of George Hearst, the mining tycoon who in real life was the father of the media tycoon who was immortalized by Orson Wells in Citizen Kane. He represents the evil in the world that always outnumbers and outguns the ordinary people. The 3rd season is bleaker than the previous two, and I immediately realized Milch's intentions to use his pen (keyboard) to reflect and comment on life today, at this moment, how we the outmatched people reckon with the powers roaming the world.
In a sense I'm not entirely disappointed with the fact that the series were canceled thus without all -- or most -- of the loose ends tied up. To have most storylines unresolved helps one imagine all these characters still living and moving around somewhere (eg, in Milch's head or any alternate universe) and having their bickering and fighting and living uninterrupted.
One of Milch's qualities that endears me is his courage to be so open and vulnerable, so completely without pretense or posturing or intellectual vanity -- all common and pervasive traits of (especially male) smart people. I love him for that.
I'm sorry this isn't very informative or much of a review. I just need to say that the joy of art lies in finding out that one is not alone in certain deeply-held sentiments, sentiments that one might hold close and dear but unable to share with most people around her for fear of being regarded as too extreme or intense. It is nice to know that the fantasies of the jugular bloodletting of certain powerful, lofty, and much-worshiped public figures are shared by Milch and his collaborators. And our rage is not confined to the dead ones like George Hearst and his son.
An extraordinary thing about the series' DVD commentaries is how every actor/director/producer repeatedly showers profuse praise and affection for the cast and crew. They seem to absolutely love working with each other despite Milch's maddening habits of writing pages of dialog the night before shooting, despite the customary clashes on TV or movie sets between egos and personalities in showbiz.
The central dramatic thread throughout this season is the towering power of George Hearst, the mining tycoon who in real life was the father of the media tycoon who was immortalized by Orson Wells in Citizen Kane. He represents the evil in the world that always outnumbers and outguns the ordinary people. The 3rd season is bleaker than the previous two, and I immediately realized Milch's intentions to use his pen (keyboard) to reflect and comment on life today, at this moment, how we the outmatched people reckon with the powers roaming the world.
In a sense I'm not entirely disappointed with the fact that the series were canceled thus without all -- or most -- of the loose ends tied up. To have most storylines unresolved helps one imagine all these characters still living and moving around somewhere (eg, in Milch's head or any alternate universe) and having their bickering and fighting and living uninterrupted.
One of Milch's qualities that endears me is his courage to be so open and vulnerable, so completely without pretense or posturing or intellectual vanity -- all common and pervasive traits of (especially male) smart people. I love him for that.
I'm sorry this isn't very informative or much of a review. I just need to say that the joy of art lies in finding out that one is not alone in certain deeply-held sentiments, sentiments that one might hold close and dear but unable to share with most people around her for fear of being regarded as too extreme or intense. It is nice to know that the fantasies of the jugular bloodletting of certain powerful, lofty, and much-worshiped public figures are shared by Milch and his collaborators. And our rage is not confined to the dead ones like George Hearst and his son.
An extraordinary thing about the series' DVD commentaries is how every actor/director/producer repeatedly showers profuse praise and affection for the cast and crew. They seem to absolutely love working with each other despite Milch's maddening habits of writing pages of dialog the night before shooting, despite the customary clashes on TV or movie sets between egos and personalities in showbiz.
Last edited by Jun on 2019-05-29 7:40, edited 1 time in total.
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一.看的电视不多。二.理论水平不够。三.不会写评论。四.写的没JUN好。不过我是有发表欲望的人,我不介意暴露一下自己的浅薄内心。
其实我也是跟着别人叫cult剧,严肃的定义wiki上一定有,不过我还是讲讲自己的理解吧。我觉得所谓的cult剧就是投小众族群所好,无微不至的迎合他们并且让他们feel good而非我族类一看就觉得很offensive的作品。编剧未必有意如此,然而他/她会尽量完美的表达自己想要表达的主题,而不是自我质询加自我否定,然后很自然的就吸引到和编剧磁场相同的观众。不过要成为一部cult剧,还需要观众的配合。拥有一颗软弱易感的心灵的观众才是cult剧的受众,比如说年轻人/书虫/文艺中年/文艺老年。所以要想写出cult剧,一定要注意迎合这部分群众的需要。
我觉得这些是cult剧:Star Trek/X Files/Blackadder。
Buffy the Vampire Slayer没看过,lost太轻飘飘了一点(以下为只看过一点点lost的人的断章取义,错的可能性很大,欢迎批评),远不足以激发起观众religion似的热情。另外我觉得lost的结构有重大问题,以前有过这种长篇玄疑剧吗?侦探剧常常是单元剧,观众的好奇心在每个单元结尾得到满足,之前积累的张力一下子释放出来。没错,我看阿加莎最爱就是最后一章,如果缺了这章我会抓狂。可是lost里好像没有这种确定性的答案揭晓的时刻?老是积累心理压力而不能很好的释放?这对心理健康不好啊……
其实我也是跟着别人叫cult剧,严肃的定义wiki上一定有,不过我还是讲讲自己的理解吧。我觉得所谓的cult剧就是投小众族群所好,无微不至的迎合他们并且让他们feel good而非我族类一看就觉得很offensive的作品。编剧未必有意如此,然而他/她会尽量完美的表达自己想要表达的主题,而不是自我质询加自我否定,然后很自然的就吸引到和编剧磁场相同的观众。不过要成为一部cult剧,还需要观众的配合。拥有一颗软弱易感的心灵的观众才是cult剧的受众,比如说年轻人/书虫/文艺中年/文艺老年。所以要想写出cult剧,一定要注意迎合这部分群众的需要。
我觉得这些是cult剧:Star Trek/X Files/Blackadder。
Buffy the Vampire Slayer没看过,lost太轻飘飘了一点(以下为只看过一点点lost的人的断章取义,错的可能性很大,欢迎批评),远不足以激发起观众religion似的热情。另外我觉得lost的结构有重大问题,以前有过这种长篇玄疑剧吗?侦探剧常常是单元剧,观众的好奇心在每个单元结尾得到满足,之前积累的张力一下子释放出来。没错,我看阿加莎最爱就是最后一章,如果缺了这章我会抓狂。可是lost里好像没有这种确定性的答案揭晓的时刻?老是积累心理压力而不能很好的释放?这对心理健康不好啊……
Cult implies a sizable following. I don't know if it's true with Deadwood. It might be critically acclaimed, but not popular.
The Third Man, to put it simply, is a postmodern treatment of popular art -- specifically genre pop art like American western movies and books, the thriller/suspense genre, the concept of heroes, etc.
The Third Man, to put it simply, is a postmodern treatment of popular art -- specifically genre pop art like American western movies and books, the thriller/suspense genre, the concept of heroes, etc.
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事实上我一直在质疑自己选的那几部算不算真正的cult,mainstream的定义在哪里?群众的观点是如此diversed,一部艺术作品能够讨好超过半数的人已经是奇迹。而且很多时候我发现我并不像自己以为的那么minority,有网络以后,似乎永远能找到同好。
Blackadder的问题挺复杂的,我知道Shaun和Gromit是老少皆宜,不知道Blackadder的接受度到底怎样?这要请教CAVA了。那天看Christmas Carol,看到开始那段nativity play的讨论,我很好奇这段会不会让宗教人士觉得很offensive,但是死忠宗教人士也未必代表mainstream吧?更多的人也许觉得他们太百无禁忌?不过这好像是英国幽默的一个传统?或许英国群众的接受度还挺高?
Blackadder的受众大概是以取笑各种权威为乐但其实又很有同情心的温和小左派,应该算书虫吧?
Blackadder的问题挺复杂的,我知道Shaun和Gromit是老少皆宜,不知道Blackadder的接受度到底怎样?这要请教CAVA了。那天看Christmas Carol,看到开始那段nativity play的讨论,我很好奇这段会不会让宗教人士觉得很offensive,但是死忠宗教人士也未必代表mainstream吧?更多的人也许觉得他们太百无禁忌?不过这好像是英国幽默的一个传统?或许英国群众的接受度还挺高?
Blackadder的受众大概是以取笑各种权威为乐但其实又很有同情心的温和小左派,应该算书虫吧?
Blackadder的接受度要超出温和小左派和书虫的范围 前几年大众票选最佳sitcom,Blackadder名列第二。请参观结果:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sitcom/winner.shtml
英国媒体在我看来远远不如美国讲政治正确,但已经比数十年前正确许多。觉得不舒服的人总是有的,但很少有人大张旗鼓地出来反对,象当年教会为了Life of Brian大战Monty Python是极个别的。
我看过的最政治不正确的节目是一讲车的,叫Top Gear。在BBC新闻台也放,时常有人投诉他们,照样全世界卖得特火。
英国媒体在我看来远远不如美国讲政治正确,但已经比数十年前正确许多。觉得不舒服的人总是有的,但很少有人大张旗鼓地出来反对,象当年教会为了Life of Brian大战Monty Python是极个别的。
我看过的最政治不正确的节目是一讲车的,叫Top Gear。在BBC新闻台也放,时常有人投诉他们,照样全世界卖得特火。
The difference is clear and large if one has a functional sense of humor and a sincere sensitivity to the feelings of people not categorized like oneself.幽默和侮辱人之间也许真的只有一线之隔。
我不太明白所谓"政治不正确"的定义。如果是The Onion, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Wait Wait Don't Tell Me那样的节目,讽刺常见而又荒谬的现象,我支持。如果是象Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly 或者拿鞋油往脸上刷扳白痴黑佬,那是种族歧视。讽刺和幽默vs自大和歧视,差别还是挺明显的,至少对我来说。
Last edited by Jun on 2008-01-07 15:24, edited 1 time in total.
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嗯,不患寡而患不均。
像上面那个主持调戏BLONDE,如果这个节目同时嘲笑猥琐色狼和没脑BLONDE,就不会那么offensive。但是这里主持人站在一个比BLONDE更高的位置上,居高临下的歧视她们。
真正的歧视是心理上feel superior,语言只是外在表现。如果心理上是平等的,那么形之于语言也只是客观的指出对方的缺点而已。
Blackadder其实挺谨慎的,下死力挖苦的都是不能反抗的死狗,所以要拍成架空啊。另外一方面,大家都和Blackadder一样mean,Baldrick不mean但是很笨,所以在人格上都很平等。即使观众代入Baldrick,也不会为Baldrick的“遭遇”义愤填膺连带恨死Blackadder,Blackadder早就在自己的脑门上贴好“我是大坏蛋”的标签了。
我觉得Blackadder和周星星的作品一样,大玩“政治不正确”又不让观众觉得offensive,很巧妙的走钢丝的作品。
政治正确其实是个index,如果政治正确存在,那就说明歧视一定存在。CAVA对政治正确敏感度弱,这是个好事情。
像上面那个主持调戏BLONDE,如果这个节目同时嘲笑猥琐色狼和没脑BLONDE,就不会那么offensive。但是这里主持人站在一个比BLONDE更高的位置上,居高临下的歧视她们。
真正的歧视是心理上feel superior,语言只是外在表现。如果心理上是平等的,那么形之于语言也只是客观的指出对方的缺点而已。
Blackadder其实挺谨慎的,下死力挖苦的都是不能反抗的死狗,所以要拍成架空啊。另外一方面,大家都和Blackadder一样mean,Baldrick不mean但是很笨,所以在人格上都很平等。即使观众代入Baldrick,也不会为Baldrick的“遭遇”义愤填膺连带恨死Blackadder,Blackadder早就在自己的脑门上贴好“我是大坏蛋”的标签了。
我觉得Blackadder和周星星的作品一样,大玩“政治不正确”又不让观众觉得offensive,很巧妙的走钢丝的作品。
政治正确其实是个index,如果政治正确存在,那就说明歧视一定存在。CAVA对政治正确敏感度弱,这是个好事情。
政治正确本来就是过头的一件事情嘛,很严格的杜绝一切可能性,如果把标准稍微放低一点,再退让几步,最终肯定会溃不成军,想钻空子的人何其多也。这有些像法律,很多时候情有可原,但是该怎么判就怎么判,为了维护更多人的利益和法律的公平性。
这件事情从来也不interesting/funny/amused,我们享受政治正确的好处的同时,也不得不忍受它带来的不便。当然这只是我的理解。
另一个原因(这个,我自己也不确定),美国这边对政治正确格外敏感,说明它比欧洲存在更多的歧视现象。
我猜政治正确不会变成真正的法律,和宪法精神冲突不讲,毕竟是条过于严苛的规则,算是目前社会环境下的权宜之计吧。
最后一句,我不是政治正确的死忠分子,看在它带来的好处的份上,勉强忍受一下而已。所以请CAVA君将来畅所欲言吧。
这件事情从来也不interesting/funny/amused,我们享受政治正确的好处的同时,也不得不忍受它带来的不便。当然这只是我的理解。
另一个原因(这个,我自己也不确定),美国这边对政治正确格外敏感,说明它比欧洲存在更多的歧视现象。
这个就是在政治正确下牺牲的无辜者,不过法官要是判他入狱,那就是没大脑了。有人收集几十年前的果酱厂赠品小非洲人模型,被邻居告上法庭
我猜政治正确不会变成真正的法律,和宪法精神冲突不讲,毕竟是条过于严苛的规则,算是目前社会环境下的权宜之计吧。
最后一句,我不是政治正确的死忠分子,看在它带来的好处的份上,勉强忍受一下而已。所以请CAVA君将来畅所欲言吧。
这话说得有点不妥,其实我的意思是,大部分人觉得幽默的东西,有些人也许会觉得是offence。就拿Blackadder和Baldrik来说,我觉得很好笑,难保没有人会提出为什么是社会阶层低的人被派为不聪明脏西西的角色,总是被欺负嘲笑?还有拿人的智力来说事也是政治不正确?幽默和侮辱人之间也许真的只有一线之隔。
政治正确应该是从美国出口的概念吧,它的范围包括些什么?确实能减少不公平待遇的政策制度?这边提到政治正确的场合绝大部分是词藻上的,那么大家难免要觉得把词库里的“黑”,包括儿歌里的“黑羊”改成其它词,把圣诞节改成冬假是表面文章,并不能解决歧视和不公平的现象。如果都要改起来,少数民族,第三世界这样的词都会有人觉得不舒服。
I personally think bland sh*t comes from a lack of talent and creativity rather than fear of political incorrectness.
I don't know what political correctness means exactly. Every time I hear this phrase used, it's usually someone proudly proclaiming one's own INcorrectness. Never have I seen anyone who stands up and say, "I'm proud of being politically correct." People seem to avoid the label like plague.
I always support people speaking their mind openly. Yes, please tell us more, Mr. Imus. Tell us what you REALLY think. 强烈支持一下诚实坦白地说心里话。
I don't know what political correctness means exactly. Every time I hear this phrase used, it's usually someone proudly proclaiming one's own INcorrectness. Never have I seen anyone who stands up and say, "I'm proud of being politically correct." People seem to avoid the label like plague.
I always support people speaking their mind openly. Yes, please tell us more, Mr. Imus. Tell us what you REALLY think. 强烈支持一下诚实坦白地说心里话。
Or a deep fondness for lawsuits? See Shakespeare's "First kill all the lawyers" and Dickens' "Bleak House".有人收集几十年前的果酱厂赠品小非洲人模型,被邻居告上法庭,也是政治正确过头。
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这应该正是Blackadder的狡猾之处,如果放个黑人白人在这里,那就是板上钉钉的歧视。但是他放的是英国社会主人和仆人的旧模式,而这两个阶层在现代社会已经消失了。没什么人会由于自身的类似遭遇而代入的替Baldrick抱不平。难保没有人会提出为什么是社会阶层低的人被派为不聪明脏西西的角色,总是被欺负嘲笑?还有拿人的智力来说事也是政治不正确?
我觉得大部分会察觉到歧视的人,多多少少与那种歧视中被歧视一方有些联系。比如说某些典型的男人觉得没什么,而大部分女人都能觉察到的性别歧视。人类最关心的是切身相关的事情,古代英国主人仆人之间的恩怨,可以当笑话看了。
That's the point。政治正确只是减轻边缘化伤害的权益手段而已,不过有比没有好,所以这边的社会最终决定采纳政治正确这条规则。与其大家骂来骂去搞得乌烟瘴气,不如一起闭嘴把时间精力放到更有建设性的事情上去,至于彼此间的仇恨,默默的放在心里好了,只要不表现出来伤害别人,谁管他怎么想。并不能解决歧视和不公平的现象
Re: TV: Deadwood (season 3)
Dear God this is actually happening.
HBO 大老板最近发话说秋天会开拍 Deadwood 电影。
感谢神 David Milch 还没把自己喝死。
据说拖了这么久喊了这么长时间都没拍是因为剧集里的人物太多,凑不到一起。现在终于 ... I don't know. 正式开拍了我才信。然而我的思路已经蠢蠢欲动地开始担心人太多每个人出场不超过5分钟,除了 Ian McShane. 大家都老了!
Deadwood 里面的好多演员都在别处屡次聚散了。
HBO 大老板最近发话说秋天会开拍 Deadwood 电影。
感谢神 David Milch 还没把自己喝死。
据说拖了这么久喊了这么长时间都没拍是因为剧集里的人物太多,凑不到一起。现在终于 ... I don't know. 正式开拍了我才信。然而我的思路已经蠢蠢欲动地开始担心人太多每个人出场不超过5分钟,除了 Ian McShane. 大家都老了!
Oh shit. 看到我自己写下的这句,忽然意识到 Olyphant 在 Justified 剧组里的坏习惯是从哪儿学来的了。despite Milch's maddening habits of writing pages of dialog the night before shooting,
Deadwood 里面的好多演员都在别处屡次聚散了。
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Re: TV: Deadwood (season 3)
Deadwood 大结局电影将在本周五播出。好期待啊。
Milch 没喝死自己,但是已经患上阿茨海默症。 啧啧这人生。
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... -third-act
What I remember the most about Milch is love --- his love for life and people. Without love you are just like Hearst, who in my mind is always Dick Cheney.
Milch 没喝死自己,但是已经患上阿茨海默症。 啧啧这人生。
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... -third-act
What I remember the most about Milch is love --- his love for life and people. Without love you are just like Hearst, who in my mind is always Dick Cheney.
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Re: TV: Deadwood (season 3)
Deadwood: The Movie 出来了。跟2006年的剧集一样,处处影射现实。It's very beautiful, as vicious and poignant as ever.
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Re: TV: Deadwood (season 3)
Deadwood 虽然是我最喜欢的剧集,但十年后已经讲不出里面任何剧情,甚至连谁跟谁谈过恋爱都记不得。一方面固然是脑子老化的结果,另一方面也是因为 ...
实际上每一季都是有剧情弧线的,例如第一季的大恶人是个叫 Booth 的老板,我看见剧照就想起来,好像是死了,肯定是被打死的,但竟然不记得是怎么死的。第三季里的大恶人 boss 印象很深,还是因为隐喻 Dick Cheney。第二季里有没有个大恶人都不记得了!
即使是同样弱化剧情以人物性格发展为主的 Mad Men,我至少还记得 Don Draper 偷了别人的身份,曾经有弟弟来找,以及跟老婆离婚跟小保姆结婚,Peggy 未婚生子然后把娃藏起来等等戏剧性的内容。唯 Deadwood 是只见树木不见森林的独特风格。连影评人写评论 Deadwood 几乎都不提具体戏剧情节点,我经常疑心那是因为他们跟我一样不记得。真是神呀吗神剧啊。
为啥呢?因为我发现自己每一秒钟的脑汁都花在理解和品味对话上了,剩不下一滴脑汁去记住正在发生了什么故事。
实际上每一季都是有剧情弧线的,例如第一季的大恶人是个叫 Booth 的老板,我看见剧照就想起来,好像是死了,肯定是被打死的,但竟然不记得是怎么死的。第三季里的大恶人 boss 印象很深,还是因为隐喻 Dick Cheney。第二季里有没有个大恶人都不记得了!
即使是同样弱化剧情以人物性格发展为主的 Mad Men,我至少还记得 Don Draper 偷了别人的身份,曾经有弟弟来找,以及跟老婆离婚跟小保姆结婚,Peggy 未婚生子然后把娃藏起来等等戏剧性的内容。唯 Deadwood 是只见树木不见森林的独特风格。连影评人写评论 Deadwood 几乎都不提具体戏剧情节点,我经常疑心那是因为他们跟我一样不记得。真是神呀吗神剧啊。
为啥呢?因为我发现自己每一秒钟的脑汁都花在理解和品味对话上了,剩不下一滴脑汁去记住正在发生了什么故事。
此喵已死,有事烧纸