【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

入得谷来,祸福自求。
dropby
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by dropby » 2020-09-10 0:50

说到画面舒适,我最近锻炼的时候刷国剧,因为英语不够好不专心就看不进去。挑了口碑很好的琅琊榜,的确是良心之作,画面挺美的。但是故事也傻得不行,我简直刷不下去。我一百年不看国剧显然是有原因的。打算下次换个综艺刷。

april
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by april » 2020-09-10 1:08

putaopi wrote:
2020-08-24 2:16
确切地说欺压朝鲜下狠手的主要是蒙古和清朝,我们可以撇清...好吧,隋唐时期也打过高句骊,但是没打过他们,输了。
武则天当政的时候赢过一次。李世民没做到的武媚娘做到了。厉害吧?
He looked like a small panther, and he moved like a patch of night.

CAVA
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by CAVA » 2020-09-10 2:05

看了你们的讨论跑去复习了木兰辞,比印象中短多了,整体结构是古代民歌的简洁优美,也有铺陈对仗的音韵美。“朔氣傳金柝,寒光照鐵衣”这句有唐诗的意蕴。

但是,这分明是一个帅气勇敢女孩子替家人分忧的故事,也有自我实现的成就感,和宋朝以后鼓吹的孝完全不是一回事。更看不到有对忠于国家君主的颂扬,大汗是造成家庭困境的原因,不是木兰出征的理由 - 大汗为什么要招兵?并没有提到国家被入侵,搞不好是侵略别人也未可知。抗争父权,为女性争光,也是原作里没有的情感。

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-09-10 2:32

木兰辞我还能背。所以可能自动感情上又给电影加分。电影里有双兔傍地走,安能辨我是雌雄。
云浆未饮结成冰

tiffany
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by tiffany » 2020-09-10 8:35

我也能背。千里赴戎机,关山度若飞,朔气传金拓,寒光照铁衣。将军百战死,壮士十年归。这个应该是早期唐朝诗的口吻,念天地之悠悠那种。
有酒有酒 闲饮东窗

豪情
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 豪情 » 2020-09-10 13:20

南北朝
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

putaopi
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by putaopi » 2020-09-10 16:05

木兰辞里的木兰跟大汗没什么直接的关系,但是九八年版的迪斯尼动画片画蛇添足地加上了木兰拯救皇帝和京城的一段,也许是想要把木兰的功劳再拔高点儿。这个真人版要基本上follow 动画片的情节,最后也来了来了一套。

不过我希望木兰的故事能成为世界经典,进入新一代的collective memories, 每个时代都重拍几遍,有自己的interpretations. 最好就是有现在看着迪斯尼木兰长大的华裔小姑娘,成为电影导演,拍出新意来。

CAVA wrote:
2020-09-10 2:05
看了你们的讨论跑去复习了木兰辞,比印象中短多了,整体结构是古代民歌的简洁优美,也有铺陈对仗的音韵美。“朔氣傳金柝,寒光照鐵衣”这句有唐诗的意蕴。

但是,这分明是一个帅气勇敢女孩子替家人分忧的故事,也有自我实现的成就感,和宋朝以后鼓吹的孝完全不是一回事。更看不到有对忠于国家君主的颂扬,大汗是造成家庭困境的原因,不是木兰出征的理由 - 大汗为什么要招兵?并没有提到国家被入侵,搞不好是侵略别人也未可知。抗争父权,为女性争光,也是原作里没有的情感。

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-09-10 17:51

putaopi wrote:
2020-09-10 16:05
不过我希望木兰的故事能成为世界经典,进入新一代的collective memories, 每个时代都重拍几遍,有自己的interpretations. 最好就是有现在看着迪斯尼木兰长大的华裔小姑娘,成为电影导演,拍出新意来。
太同意了!这一版叠加出一点自己的特色就足够了。
云浆未饮结成冰

唐唐的郁金香
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-10-16 12:26

推荐 Interior Chinatown:
Image

格式很奇特,半小说半剧本。表面上是一群唐人街亚裔演员在一部名叫《Black and White》的电影里客串、拼命往上爬(争取好一点的角色)的故事,实际上讲的是美国种族冲突、亚裔移民历史和独特的处境—不黑不白,不上不下,觉得你没用就不让你进门,有用的时候就捧你为model minority。讽刺喜剧,各种亚裔的刻板印象,很尖锐,读起来很好笑又很难过。和Minor Feelings相比,Interior Chinatown侧重于男性经验,对亚裔男特有的自卑感描写得很微妙。
"In the world of Black and White, everyone starts out as Generic Asian Man. Everyone who looks like you, anyway. Unless you're a woman, in which case you start out as Pretty Asian Woman."
"...the whole building buzzing until sunrise, as if nothing matters because nothing does matter because the idea was you came here, your parents and their parents and their parents, and you always seem to have just arrived and yet never seem to have actually arrived. You are here, supposedly, in a new land full of opportunity, but somehow have gotten trapped in a pretend version of the old country."
(in answering to the question from a White Female character "Are you sure you're not asking to be treated like a White man?"): "He is asking to be treated like an American. A real American. Because, honestly, when you think American, what color do you see? White? Black?"
"That because on the one hand you, for obvious reasons, have not been and can never be fully assimilated into mainstream, i.e. White America. And on the other hand neither do you feel fully justified in claiming solidarity with other historically and currently oppressed groups. That while your community's experience in the United States has included racism on the personal and the institutional levels, including but not limited to: immigration quotas, actual federal legislation expressly excluding people who look like you from entering the country. Legislation that was in effect for almost a century. Antimiscegenation laws. Discriminatory housing policies. Alien land laws and restrictive covenants. Violation of civil liberties including internment. That despite all of that, you somehow feel that your oppression, because it does not include the original American sin-of slavery-that it will never add up to something equivalent. "

作者Charles Yu(游朝凯),二代台湾移民,当过《Westworld》的编剧。

纽约时报的书评:A Devastating (and Darkly Hilarious) New Novel From the ‘Westworld’ Writer Charles Yu:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/book ... es-yu.html
Last edited by 唐唐的郁金香 on 2020-10-17 6:58, edited 1 time in total.
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-16 13:15

Charles Yu 名气很大的哎,早于 Westworld. 家属有他的书(因为是 sci fi),据说是挺好看的。我没看过。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

唐唐的郁金香
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-10-16 13:30

Jun wrote:
2020-10-16 13:15
Charles Yu 名气很大的哎,早于 Westworld. 家属有他的书(因为是 sci fi),据说是挺好看的。我没看过。
有一个奇特的名字:《How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe》,我也没看,据说和《Interior Chinatown》很不一样。
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-10-16 13:56

有意思。
云浆未饮结成冰

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-17 16:13

唐唐的郁金香 wrote:
2020-10-16 13:30
有一个奇特的名字:《How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe》,我也没看,据说和《Interior Chinatown》很不一样。
这本家属有,不过我选择先看他之前出版的短篇集三流超级英雄。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-19 16:24

我终于排到了有声书版本,是作者 Cathy Hong 自己念的,刚开始听就被深深吸引了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

putaopi
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by putaopi » 2020-10-19 22:00

June 也开始听了?太好了。我还没读完,有些部分读得太痛苦了,得放下缓缓才能读下一篇。特别是Portrait of an Artist 这一章。

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-10-20 1:18

那一章是太痛苦了。但是我之前真的没有从这个角度想过问题。这本书真有一种禁书感。
云浆未饮结成冰

唐唐的郁金香
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-10-20 7:34

Cathy Park Hong的声音挺有感染力的。诗人就是不一样。Portrait of an Artist里的韩裔艺术家还是第一次听说。警察、媒体案子的态度,真是“看不见的亚裔”之体现。好想问问那些在BLM运动中支持警暴的华川们,你们真的觉得警察会保护你们吗?
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

tiffany
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by tiffany » 2020-10-20 11:19

她讲三个女孩儿相爱相杀互相支持互相辜负,真,看得我不敢看。
有酒有酒 闲饮东窗

唐唐的郁金香
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-10-20 12:06

tiffany wrote:
2020-10-20 11:19
她讲三个女孩儿相爱相杀互相支持互相辜负,真,看得我不敢看。
这一篇我觉得写的最好,血淋淋地真,非常感人。
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-20 14:57

开头 Hong 说了一些(美国)诗作界的雪雪白的文化。让我联想起前阵子那封“言论自由”的公开信背后牵扯的真实事件。当时公开信作者(组织者)因为信中的 whining,不,意见太模糊而受到质疑,然后举出一些具体例子,即到底谁的言论自由被打压了,举例之一就是:Poetry Foundation 的两个大头头(老白男)受到圈内少数族裔诗人的集体质疑,被迫辞职下台。公开信作者认为这俩领导被迫下台是因为,群众(不是吃瓜群众而是诗界内部群众)对 Poetry Foundation 在 Black Lives Matter 运动的支持太轻描淡写和不情不愿,表态不够坚定,所以就起哄了。然后又有人出来说不是这样的,实际上诗界内部少数族裔的诗人早就对 Poetry Foundation 领导层一向的做派风格(隐形歧视)不满已久,这次只是积怨爆发而已。作为一个完全不看诗的人,我当然无法判断谁说得更接近现实状况,只是知道 Poetry Foundation 在圈内有很大权力,因为诗集出版那肯定是不赚钱的,Foundation 发的 grants 是很多没捞到大学英语系教职的诗人看重和眼红的资源。看到 Cathy Hong 爆出诗界内幕难免有种,哇~~~的惊叹。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-10-22 15:48

2018年有本书叫做White Fragility,作者 Robin DiAngelo 是白人女性。她的意思是白人有拒绝谈种族歧视的倾向,她做为白人把这其中的不好听的话对白人群众们说说吧。她本人长期给企业做种族歧视的培训。她说她去企业做培训的时候,听众都是一张被强迫的脸。听众当中有色人种越少对她和她的同事,一个黑人女性,的敌意越重。尤其是当房间里只有她的同事一个有色人种的时候。并且这种敌意是用一种愤怒表达出来的。最开始一段时间她会被这种愤怒吓到,不敢讲。后来就习惯了。听众中的白人通常生活中跟有色人种没有直接接触,认为自己绝对没有种族歧视,种族歧视是坏人做的事情,你凭什么来教训我?他们不认为他们习惯的无意识举动会造成种族歧视的后果。我才看开头。先就这么多。
云浆未饮结成冰

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-22 19:50

Can I be frank for a moment? This country is not going to get significantly better for minorities and women any time soon, regardless of election results.

书里很多内容都非常 resonate with me. 例如现在特别烦看见全白男视角的文艺作品,不管卡司里有没有 darkies 配角或女主角,白男视角和话术的套路立刻让我不耐烦不想看。已经看过太多了,足够了谢谢。(除非是 Montalbano)

Hong 指出的一点我觉得很有道理,即美国的种族主义历史与现状跟它的帝国殖民主义一脉相承无法分割,(小声说它的 toxic masculinity 也是这一团乱麻的一部分)。例如1960年代向亚洲国家移民开放是因为与苏联争夺世界霸权的策略的一部分。我一直以为美国的底线一路下跌,越南战争搞砸了之后接收一些南越难民还算有点良心,而伊拉克战争后吃饱喝足拍拍屁股就走掉了害人无数,现在看来差别不过是 2003年之后不必再维持跟苏联对立的灯塔国的形象罢了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-10-22 21:28

哇塞!我就是看到那段觉得手中的Kindle炙热,我在暗夜里偷偷阅读禁书。
云浆未饮结成冰

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-28 11:52

tiffany wrote:
2020-10-20 11:19
她讲三个女孩儿相爱相杀互相支持互相辜负,真,看得我不敢看。
是不是 An Education 这一章,关于作者在大学里跟两个艺术家同学的经历?

我也觉得很好看很喜欢,不过里面大部分抓马来自 Helen 的激烈性格,很可能是 bipolar 和 borderline 的混合型。她是属于既有病又有天赋的少数,大部分此类人不过是有病而已。

类似看 My Brilliant Friend 时的感受,female friendship 真的是以互相滋养为主题,那点竞争和冲突是让故事更有刺激的胡椒面儿。

听书的缺点是不能翻到后面看内容,不知道她有没有最终写到她母亲。这才是终极秘密吧。

我觉得此书特别神的地方是把自己的回忆录跟身份政治融合在一起了,融合得特别自然而有逻辑,一点不觉得生硬。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

putaopi
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by putaopi » 2020-10-28 12:08

An Education 这段让我想起我的邻居,坚决禁止女儿去念Oberlin college, 拿了奖学金也不让去,宁愿付全额学费去了南加。我邻居的借口是街上有一排纹身店,而且跟旧金山没有直达航班。但我觉得她有不好直说的理由:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Lena Dunham 在Small Furnitures 和Girls里都常常提起她自己在Oberlin的生活和朋友。这个学校的写作和艺术都很强的,又特别liberal, 专门吸引养成比较先锋前卫的文人艺术家。

putaopi
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by putaopi » 2020-11-19 10:13

喜大普奔!今天一早看到Interior Chinatown 得了National Book Award, 想起唐唐的介绍,来报个喜讯。



唐唐的郁金香 wrote:
2020-10-16 12:26
推荐 Interior Chinatown:
Image

格式很奇特,半小说半剧本。表面上是一群唐人街亚裔演员在一部名叫《Black and White》的电影里客串、拼命往上爬(争取好一点的角色)的故事,实际上讲的是美国种族冲突、亚裔移民历史和独特的处境—不黑不白,不上不下,觉得你没用就不让你进门,有用的时候就捧你为model minority。讽刺喜剧,各种亚裔的刻板印象,很尖锐,读起来很好笑又很难过。和Minor Feelings相比,Interior Chinatown侧重于男性经验,对亚裔男特有的自卑感描写得很微妙。
"In the world of Black and White, everyone starts out as Generic Asian Man. Everyone who looks like you, anyway. Unless you're a woman, in which case you start out as Pretty Asian Woman."
"...the whole building buzzing until sunrise, as if nothing matters because nothing does matter because the idea was you came here, your parents and their parents and their parents, and you always seem to have just arrived and yet never seem to have actually arrived. You are here, supposedly, in a new land full of opportunity, but somehow have gotten trapped in a pretend version of the old country."
(in answering to the question from a White Female character "Are you sure you're not asking to be treated like a White man?"): "He is asking to be treated like an American. A real American. Because, honestly, when you think American, what color do you see? White? Black?"
"That because on the one hand you, for obvious reasons, have not been and can never be fully assimilated into mainstream, i.e. White America. And on the other hand neither do you feel fully justified in claiming solidarity with other historically and currently oppressed groups. That while your community's experience in the United States has included racism on the personal and the institutional levels, including but not limited to: immigration quotas, actual federal legislation expressly excluding people who look like you from entering the country. Legislation that was in effect for almost a century. Antimiscegenation laws. Discriminatory housing policies. Alien land laws and restrictive covenants. Violation of civil liberties including internment. That despite all of that, you somehow feel that your oppression, because it does not include the original American sin-of slavery-that it will never add up to something equivalent. "

作者Charles Yu(游朝凯),二代台湾移民,当过《Westworld》的编剧。

纽约时报的书评:A Devastating (and Darkly Hilarious) New Novel From the ‘Westworld’ Writer Charles Yu:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/book ... es-yu.html

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-11-19 12:44

putaopi wrote:
2020-11-19 10:13
喜大普奔!今天一早看到Interior Chinatown 得了National Book Award, 想起唐唐的介绍,来报个喜讯。
鼓掌!这是今年的NBA的线上颁奖仪式。Interior Chinatown 从1:50:22开始:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69NV5gsrzmE

Charles Yu的第一反应是:What?!

又:他家的书居然是按颜色排架的!是可忍孰不可忍 :mrgreen:
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-11-19 13:14

真是太好了。
云浆未饮结成冰

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-11-27 18:40

在新鲜空气上听到跟朝鲜裔大厨和餐馆店主 David Chang 的自传宣传,搞得我很想看这本书:
Chef David Chang On Depression, Being A Dad And The Burden Of 'Authenticity'

他父母从北朝鲜移民到美国,怀着贫穷的记忆,生活非常节省,我联想到舍不得花钱的父母,觉得很多移民家庭都能感同身受。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-11-27 20:37

啊啊啊,次元壁被打破了,我可喜欢David Chang 了。
云浆未饮结成冰

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-11-27 21:16

David Chang 好像是在我们这附近长大的,但是他开的 Momofuku 是从纽约开始的,最近在 DC 的店也不得不关掉了。他在访谈里十分强调自己做了不少后悔的事情,伤害了身边的人,但又没具体细说,让我很好奇他到底干了啥事儿了那么自责。

听 David Chang 讲他父母和自己的经历,让我想到,也许移民的经历可以看作 inherently traumatic experience, 至少也是一个 chronic shock。Tribalism 的直觉是人性的一部分,长期在少数弱势的处境中,可以类比为黑猩猩部落中长期处于被统治地位的成员,cortisol 血液浓度比较高(相对于头领),换言之,长期处于相对紧张的状况。当然,移民和迁徙带来的好处够大,令人类不停地迁徙转移,不能被 displacement 带来的负面后果抹杀。象 Cathy Park Hong 说的,移民到美国的非白人族群,除了实在不好意思如此要求黑人后代,其它族群的故事主题都必须是“啊我多幸运,我的生活多么好,到达了幸福的彼岸,还不感激涕零”。这本身并不是假的,移民肯定有带来个人的好处,同时也带来 trauma,不是 mutually exclusive 也不能互相抵消,而是共存的,但是真实而复杂的描述被制止和压抑了,如果想要真实地体验和表达一下自己的经历和感受,就会被高等种族鄙视,并称之为 ungrateful, dwelling on the negative。对于 gratitude 的问题,Cathy Park Hong 在书中最后一章里有很尖锐的辩论,让人感到震撼。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Knowing » 2020-11-28 14:56

我也听了这个访谈。觉得最妙的金句是工作狂是这世界上最后一个被社会认为可接受的成瘾习惯。so true.

从落后国家移民到美国有点像social climb 进了新的阶层,好处和创伤都存在,但落到具体每个人,注意力集中点不同,有人自我感觉很好(成功了!)有人很难受(突然成了新环境里的底层)。我在想为什么朝鲜裔能那么敏感细致写出并行的两种感受,而中国移民文学似乎没见过?
Nevertheless, she persisted.

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-11-28 22:06

很久以前韩剧流行的时候我看过一个说法,把韩国人称为亚洲的意大利人。当时我还以为意思是说韩国演员比较美貌,心里颇不以为然,不都是整容的人造美貌吗?跟意大利人的美貌是一回事儿吗?但实际上这个说法的意思是指韩国的文艺作品中感情特别激烈,类似拉丁民族的火热劲头儿。按理说朝鲜/韩国的历史上有很强的儒教历史,是不是应该跟中国文化很类似呢?但好像并没有——也许是灭人欲的理论出现得比较晚,对朝鲜王朝没有直接影响?I don't know. 别的方面我也不了解,韩剧没看过不能瞎说,单看九十年代复兴后的韩国电影就觉得,哇,风格与日本和港台陆各地的片子都大有不同,尤其是强烈的感官刺激和激烈的冲突。本来还以为是复兴后的走向,然而看了金绮泳的《下女》才发现其实一直是很 sensual and sexual 的。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-11-29 11:52

中国移民文学有Amy Tan啊,很长一段时间Amy Tan简直就是东亚移民文学在美国的唯一的代表,变成了刻板偏见的一部分,所以Celeste Ng专门写了一篇文章解释她为什么讨厌Amy Tan。其实不怪Amy Tan,怪的是Single Story。尼日利亚作家Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie有一个TED Talk说的很好:The Danger of a Single Story: https://www.ted.com/talks/chimamanda_ng ... ngle_story

Charles Yu的Interior Chinatown也算移民文学,写得也很好啊,风格、角度不同。有趣的是好几个华人作家都是从写科幻小说起家的,Charles Yu、Ken Liu(刘宇昆)。华人女作家移民文学写得好的好像真没有,Celeste Ng的《Little Fires Everywhere》已经不算移民文学了。有一个写儿童文学的Grace Lin,她的The Year of Dog我家孩子挺喜欢的。
Last edited by 唐唐的郁金香 on 2020-11-29 12:05, edited 1 time in total.
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Knowing » 2020-11-29 12:05

Jun wrote:
2020-11-27 21:16
David Chang 好像是在我们这附近长大的,但是他开的 Momofuku 是从纽约开始的,最近在 DC 的店也不得不关掉了。他在访谈里十分强调自己做了不少后悔的事情,伤害了身边的人,但又没具体细说,让我很好奇他到底干了啥事儿了那么自责。
我听了那本书的摘要。他有bipolar, 经常暴怒吼对手下员工,momofuku 是open kitchen , 来吃饭的客人也能看到他骂,有个 blogger 还给写下来了。在这样高压的厨房里干活大家也都很郁闷,酗酒嗑药不在少数。老板然不得人心,员工经常反叛跳槽,他就更愤怒了。有次有个收垃圾的工人误闯进厨房,他暴怒到产生rage blackout, 事后别人告诉他他挥着厨刀威胁对方。有段时候他收了个徒弟,十七岁,聪明有天赋,他很喜欢,视为接班人培养,结果有次他出差的时候厨房里的员工打算集体叛变,他在电话里吼了徒弟一顿说等我回来算帐,没等他回来徒弟就overdose 死了。
Nevertheless, she persisted.

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-11-29 12:08

Knowing wrote:
2020-11-29 12:05
我听了那本书的摘要。他有bipolar, 经常暴怒吼对手下员工,momofuku 是open kitchen , 来吃饭的客人也能看到他骂,有个 blogger 还给写下来了。在这样高压的厨房里干活大家也都很郁闷,酗酒嗑药不在少数。老板然不得人心,员工经常反叛跳槽,他就更愤怒了。有次有个收垃圾的工人误闯进厨房,他暴怒到产生rage blackout, 事后别人告诉他他挥着厨刀威胁对方。有段时候他收了个徒弟,十七岁,聪明有天赋,他很喜欢,视为接班人培养,结果有次他出差的时候厨房里的员工打算集体叛变,他在电话里吼了徒弟一顿说等我回来算帐,没等他回来徒弟就overdose 死了
:shock: 这。。。
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Knowing » 2020-11-30 5:30

是很那啥。一度相当崩溃。然后在心理医生的帮助下很努力的处理anger issue 后有所改进。然后开始process 自己一直为是朝鲜移民后裔感到羞耻的事, process 父子关系。这些issue 都是纠缠在一起的。
Nevertheless, she persisted.

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-11-30 8:27

Bourdain 以前说过餐馆厨房里有很多嗑药的,他自己也滥用过 cocaine 之类的兴奋剂。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Knowing » 2020-11-30 8:31

因为是体力活吧。我没啥根据的乱猜。
Nevertheless, she persisted.

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-11-30 8:33

Knowing wrote:
2020-11-30 8:31
因为是体力活吧。我没啥根据的乱猜。
模糊地记得他说一是压力大(需要赶紧出菜否则客人都跑光了),二是晨昏颠倒,三是年轻男人多。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Knowing
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Knowing » 2020-11-30 8:41

说到移民,他虽然有移民童年创伤,并没妨碍他跑到日本学艺,后来又跑到悉尼多伦多开餐馆。第二代移民,或者未成年的时候带过来的1.5代移民,不是自己的选择,怨念的确更多一些。也许第一代移民已经成年,有很清晰的identity, 会踏实的在同族裔的小泡泡中继续生活,没有未成年人想要fit in 又想要寻找identity 的纠结。
另一点关于移民/文化,David Chang 的餐馆都是日本名字,也是个有趣的事情,他外公是日本治下长大被洗脑殖民爱好一切日本事物,小时候常带他去吃日本菜,大概这也导致他会跑到日本学厨,回来开的餐馆是日本拉面馆,以后的餐馆承袭了momofuku 品牌所以用日本名字。
后来他愤怒的控诉亚洲菜在美国卖不上价钱,很难出高级餐馆。亚洲菜里,中国菜越南菜被视为便宜大碗,日本菜从八十年代起就被认为是高级的,跟意大利菜法国菜差不多。拉面是日本菜里唯一的大众分支。每个国家都有高级菜和大众菜的分支,看那支先传到美国就固化印象了。而那支先传来,跟那种移民先来美国关系大大的。日本没有大批逃过来的难民,80年代才被介绍进美国,跟经济腾飞连在一起。被他这么一说,我想意大利菜也是跟着最早的穷移民过来,便宜大碗的通心粉和披萨最流行,为什么高级意大利餐馆还能开下去,细想有点奇怪。
Nevertheless, she persisted.

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-11-30 10:25

对费城附近的意大利菜印象深刻的人说,大部分意大利馆子的确是很亲民的,高级意大利馆子是极少数,从比例来看。

我记得很多年前就看到文章抱怨说美国的日菜馆子都是价格高的 sushi,不像日本国内普通群众吃的家常菜那么多,咖喱定食,汉堡肉饼,等等。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Knowing » 2020-12-01 4:17

纽约的日本菜很全面,你记得我带你去吃过的bryant park 边上的日本午餐小cafe 么?就是咖喱牛肉,麻婆豆腐之类的便当盒。还有小的关东煮馆子,卖饭团的日本咖啡店。高端的料理同样多。在 David Chang 开桃子面馆之前,拉面馆就很多而且也相当main stream 。当时我都take for granted, 后来才发现不是每个大城市都这样。搬到伦敦后等了好几年才出现日本拉面馆。哎回忆着回忆着我感到不行了,决定趁解禁再吃一顿 omakase ,现在就去订座。
Nevertheless, she persisted.

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-12-01 7:46

Knowing wrote:
2020-12-01 4:17
纽约的日本菜很全面,你记得我带你去吃过的bryant park 边上的日本午餐小cafe 么?就是咖喱牛肉,麻婆豆腐之类的便当盒。还有小的关东煮馆子,卖饭团的日本咖啡店。高端的料理同样多。在 David Chang 开桃子面馆之前,拉面馆就很多而且也相当main stream 。当时我都take for granted, 后来才发现不是每个大城市都这样。搬到伦敦后等了好几年才出现日本拉面馆。哎回忆着回忆着我感到不行了,决定趁解禁再吃一顿 omakase ,现在就去订座。
大概是纽约有不少日本移民。在其它地方根本看不到移民来开的正宗日菜餐馆,本地马里兰只有两家我去过的知道老板是日本人,其它日菜馆子都是韩国人或中国人开的。在洛杉矶也只有 Little Tokyo 那边的馆子是真日本移民开的,太远了我只去过一次,Little Saigon 倒是去过好几次。总之就是因为人少所以没那个市场要求。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-12-01 7:55

Jun wrote:
2020-12-01 7:46
大概是纽约有不少日本移民。在其它地方根本看不到移民来开的正宗日菜餐馆,本地马里兰只有两家我去过的知道老板是日本人,其它日菜馆子都是韩国人或中国人开的。在洛杉矶也只有 Little Tokyo 那边的馆子是真日本移民开的,太远了我只去过一次,Little Saigon 倒是去过好几次。总之就是因为人少所以没那个市场要求。
哪两家?请说说?等我明年打了疫苗就去吃。。。 :mrgreen:
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-12-01 8:00

啊唐唐是在首都地区的吗?谷里有一些本地姐妹吗?我们可以另开一贴分享下本地贴士。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Knowing » 2020-12-01 8:01

纽约有驻扎的日本移民,流动的日本学生群体提供劳动力,还有正宗日本小馆最喜欢的客户群:出差的日本生意人,对菜要求高,但是喝的多,利润多。
Nevertheless, she persisted.

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-12-01 8:04

Jun wrote:
2020-12-01 8:00
啊唐唐是在首都地区的吗?谷里有一些本地姐妹吗?我们可以另开一贴分享下本地贴士。
好啊。我住在北维,去首都要坐地铁。
Last edited by 唐唐的郁金香 on 2020-12-01 8:08, edited 1 time in total.
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-12-01 8:05

Knowing wrote:
2020-12-01 8:01
纽约有驻扎的日本移民,流动的日本学生群体提供劳动力,还有正宗日本小馆最喜欢的客户群:出差的日本生意人,对菜要求高,但是喝的多,利润多。
纽约是移民食的天堂,别的地方没法比。
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 豪情 » 2020-12-02 12:35

这个不能苟同
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

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