【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

入得谷来,祸福自求。
dropby
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by dropby » 2020-09-10 0:50

说到画面舒适,我最近锻炼的时候刷国剧,因为英语不够好不专心就看不进去。挑了口碑很好的琅琊榜,的确是良心之作,画面挺美的。但是故事也傻得不行,我简直刷不下去。我一百年不看国剧显然是有原因的。打算下次换个综艺刷。

april
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by april » 2020-09-10 1:08

putaopi wrote:
2020-08-24 2:16
确切地说欺压朝鲜下狠手的主要是蒙古和清朝,我们可以撇清...好吧,隋唐时期也打过高句骊,但是没打过他们,输了。
武则天当政的时候赢过一次。李世民没做到的武媚娘做到了。厉害吧?
He looked like a small panther, and he moved like a patch of night.

CAVA
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by CAVA » 2020-09-10 2:05

看了你们的讨论跑去复习了木兰辞,比印象中短多了,整体结构是古代民歌的简洁优美,也有铺陈对仗的音韵美。“朔氣傳金柝,寒光照鐵衣”这句有唐诗的意蕴。

但是,这分明是一个帅气勇敢女孩子替家人分忧的故事,也有自我实现的成就感,和宋朝以后鼓吹的孝完全不是一回事。更看不到有对忠于国家君主的颂扬,大汗是造成家庭困境的原因,不是木兰出征的理由 - 大汗为什么要招兵?并没有提到国家被入侵,搞不好是侵略别人也未可知。抗争父权,为女性争光,也是原作里没有的情感。

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-09-10 2:32

木兰辞我还能背。所以可能自动感情上又给电影加分。电影里有双兔傍地走,安能辨我是雌雄。
云浆未饮结成冰

tiffany
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by tiffany » 2020-09-10 8:35

我也能背。千里赴戎机,关山度若飞,朔气传金拓,寒光照铁衣。将军百战死,壮士十年归。这个应该是早期唐朝诗的口吻,念天地之悠悠那种。
有酒有酒 闲饮东窗

豪情
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 豪情 » 2020-09-10 13:20

南北朝
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

putaopi
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by putaopi » 2020-09-10 16:05

木兰辞里的木兰跟大汗没什么直接的关系,但是九八年版的迪斯尼动画片画蛇添足地加上了木兰拯救皇帝和京城的一段,也许是想要把木兰的功劳再拔高点儿。这个真人版要基本上follow 动画片的情节,最后也来了来了一套。

不过我希望木兰的故事能成为世界经典,进入新一代的collective memories, 每个时代都重拍几遍,有自己的interpretations. 最好就是有现在看着迪斯尼木兰长大的华裔小姑娘,成为电影导演,拍出新意来。

CAVA wrote:
2020-09-10 2:05
看了你们的讨论跑去复习了木兰辞,比印象中短多了,整体结构是古代民歌的简洁优美,也有铺陈对仗的音韵美。“朔氣傳金柝,寒光照鐵衣”这句有唐诗的意蕴。

但是,这分明是一个帅气勇敢女孩子替家人分忧的故事,也有自我实现的成就感,和宋朝以后鼓吹的孝完全不是一回事。更看不到有对忠于国家君主的颂扬,大汗是造成家庭困境的原因,不是木兰出征的理由 - 大汗为什么要招兵?并没有提到国家被入侵,搞不好是侵略别人也未可知。抗争父权,为女性争光,也是原作里没有的情感。

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-09-10 17:51

putaopi wrote:
2020-09-10 16:05
不过我希望木兰的故事能成为世界经典,进入新一代的collective memories, 每个时代都重拍几遍,有自己的interpretations. 最好就是有现在看着迪斯尼木兰长大的华裔小姑娘,成为电影导演,拍出新意来。
太同意了!这一版叠加出一点自己的特色就足够了。
云浆未饮结成冰

唐唐的郁金香
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-10-16 12:26

推荐 Interior Chinatown:
Image

格式很奇特,半小说半剧本。表面上是一群唐人街亚裔演员在一部名叫《Black and White》的电影里客串、拼命往上爬(争取好一点的角色)的故事,实际上讲的是美国种族冲突、亚裔移民历史和独特的处境—不黑不白,不上不下,觉得你没用就不让你进门,有用的时候就捧你为model minority。讽刺喜剧,各种亚裔的刻板印象,很尖锐,读起来很好笑又很难过。和Minor Feelings相比,Interior Chinatown侧重于男性经验,对亚裔男特有的自卑感描写得很微妙。
"In the world of Black and White, everyone starts out as Generic Asian Man. Everyone who looks like you, anyway. Unless you're a woman, in which case you start out as Pretty Asian Woman."
"...the whole building buzzing until sunrise, as if nothing matters because nothing does matter because the idea was you came here, your parents and their parents and their parents, and you always seem to have just arrived and yet never seem to have actually arrived. You are here, supposedly, in a new land full of opportunity, but somehow have gotten trapped in a pretend version of the old country."
(in answering to the question from a White Female character "Are you sure you're not asking to be treated like a White man?"): "He is asking to be treated like an American. A real American. Because, honestly, when you think American, what color do you see? White? Black?"
"That because on the one hand you, for obvious reasons, have not been and can never be fully assimilated into mainstream, i.e. White America. And on the other hand neither do you feel fully justified in claiming solidarity with other historically and currently oppressed groups. That while your community's experience in the United States has included racism on the personal and the institutional levels, including but not limited to: immigration quotas, actual federal legislation expressly excluding people who look like you from entering the country. Legislation that was in effect for almost a century. Antimiscegenation laws. Discriminatory housing policies. Alien land laws and restrictive covenants. Violation of civil liberties including internment. That despite all of that, you somehow feel that your oppression, because it does not include the original American sin-of slavery-that it will never add up to something equivalent. "

作者Charles Yu(游朝凯),二代台湾移民,当过《Westworld》的编剧。

纽约时报的书评:A Devastating (and Darkly Hilarious) New Novel From the ‘Westworld’ Writer Charles Yu:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/book ... es-yu.html
Last edited by 唐唐的郁金香 on 2020-10-17 6:58, edited 1 time in total.
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-16 13:15

Charles Yu 名气很大的哎,早于 Westworld. 家属有他的书(因为是 sci fi),据说是挺好看的。我没看过。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

唐唐的郁金香
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-10-16 13:30

Jun wrote:
2020-10-16 13:15
Charles Yu 名气很大的哎,早于 Westworld. 家属有他的书(因为是 sci fi),据说是挺好看的。我没看过。
有一个奇特的名字:《How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe》,我也没看,据说和《Interior Chinatown》很不一样。
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-10-16 13:56

有意思。
云浆未饮结成冰

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-17 16:13

唐唐的郁金香 wrote:
2020-10-16 13:30
有一个奇特的名字:《How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe》,我也没看,据说和《Interior Chinatown》很不一样。
这本家属有,不过我选择先看他之前出版的短篇集三流超级英雄。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-19 16:24

我终于排到了有声书版本,是作者 Cathy Hong 自己念的,刚开始听就被深深吸引了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

putaopi
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by putaopi » 2020-10-19 22:00

June 也开始听了?太好了。我还没读完,有些部分读得太痛苦了,得放下缓缓才能读下一篇。特别是Portrait of an Artist 这一章。

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-10-20 1:18

那一章是太痛苦了。但是我之前真的没有从这个角度想过问题。这本书真有一种禁书感。
云浆未饮结成冰

唐唐的郁金香
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-10-20 7:34

Cathy Park Hong的声音挺有感染力的。诗人就是不一样。Portrait of an Artist里的韩裔艺术家还是第一次听说。警察、媒体案子的态度,真是“看不见的亚裔”之体现。好想问问那些在BLM运动中支持警暴的华川们,你们真的觉得警察会保护你们吗?
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

tiffany
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by tiffany » 2020-10-20 11:19

她讲三个女孩儿相爱相杀互相支持互相辜负,真,看得我不敢看。
有酒有酒 闲饮东窗

唐唐的郁金香
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-10-20 12:06

tiffany wrote:
2020-10-20 11:19
她讲三个女孩儿相爱相杀互相支持互相辜负,真,看得我不敢看。
这一篇我觉得写的最好,血淋淋地真,非常感人。
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-20 14:57

开头 Hong 说了一些(美国)诗作界的雪雪白的文化。让我联想起前阵子那封“言论自由”的公开信背后牵扯的真实事件。当时公开信作者(组织者)因为信中的 whining,不,意见太模糊而受到质疑,然后举出一些具体例子,即到底谁的言论自由被打压了,举例之一就是:Poetry Foundation 的两个大头头(老白男)受到圈内少数族裔诗人的集体质疑,被迫辞职下台。公开信作者认为这俩领导被迫下台是因为,群众(不是吃瓜群众而是诗界内部群众)对 Poetry Foundation 在 Black Lives Matter 运动的支持太轻描淡写和不情不愿,表态不够坚定,所以就起哄了。然后又有人出来说不是这样的,实际上诗界内部少数族裔的诗人早就对 Poetry Foundation 领导层一向的做派风格(隐形歧视)不满已久,这次只是积怨爆发而已。作为一个完全不看诗的人,我当然无法判断谁说得更接近现实状况,只是知道 Poetry Foundation 在圈内有很大权力,因为诗集出版那肯定是不赚钱的,Foundation 发的 grants 是很多没捞到大学英语系教职的诗人看重和眼红的资源。看到 Cathy Hong 爆出诗界内幕难免有种,哇~~~的惊叹。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-10-22 15:48

2018年有本书叫做White Fragility,作者 Robin DiAngelo 是白人女性。她的意思是白人有拒绝谈种族歧视的倾向,她做为白人把这其中的不好听的话对白人群众们说说吧。她本人长期给企业做种族歧视的培训。她说她去企业做培训的时候,听众都是一张被强迫的脸。听众当中有色人种越少对她和她的同事,一个黑人女性,的敌意越重。尤其是当房间里只有她的同事一个有色人种的时候。并且这种敌意是用一种愤怒表达出来的。最开始一段时间她会被这种愤怒吓到,不敢讲。后来就习惯了。听众中的白人通常生活中跟有色人种没有直接接触,认为自己绝对没有种族歧视,种族歧视是坏人做的事情,你凭什么来教训我?他们不认为他们习惯的无意识举动会造成种族歧视的后果。我才看开头。先就这么多。
云浆未饮结成冰

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-22 19:50

Can I be frank for a moment? This country is not going to get significantly better for minorities and women any time soon, regardless of election results.

书里很多内容都非常 resonate with me. 例如现在特别烦看见全白男视角的文艺作品,不管卡司里有没有 darkies 配角或女主角,白男视角和话术的套路立刻让我不耐烦不想看。已经看过太多了,足够了谢谢。(除非是 Montalbano)

Hong 指出的一点我觉得很有道理,即美国的种族主义历史与现状跟它的帝国殖民主义一脉相承无法分割,(小声说它的 toxic masculinity 也是这一团乱麻的一部分)。例如1960年代向亚洲国家移民开放是因为与苏联争夺世界霸权的策略的一部分。我一直以为美国的底线一路下跌,越南战争搞砸了之后接收一些南越难民还算有点良心,而伊拉克战争后吃饱喝足拍拍屁股就走掉了害人无数,现在看来差别不过是 2003年之后不必再维持跟苏联对立的灯塔国的形象罢了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-10-22 21:28

哇塞!我就是看到那段觉得手中的Kindle炙热,我在暗夜里偷偷阅读禁书。
云浆未饮结成冰

Jun
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by Jun » 2020-10-28 11:52

tiffany wrote:
2020-10-20 11:19
她讲三个女孩儿相爱相杀互相支持互相辜负,真,看得我不敢看。
是不是 An Education 这一章,关于作者在大学里跟两个艺术家同学的经历?

我也觉得很好看很喜欢,不过里面大部分抓马来自 Helen 的激烈性格,很可能是 bipolar 和 borderline 的混合型。她是属于既有病又有天赋的少数,大部分此类人不过是有病而已。

类似看 My Brilliant Friend 时的感受,female friendship 真的是以互相滋养为主题,那点竞争和冲突是让故事更有刺激的胡椒面儿。

听书的缺点是不能翻到后面看内容,不知道她有没有最终写到她母亲。这才是终极秘密吧。

我觉得此书特别神的地方是把自己的回忆录跟身份政治融合在一起了,融合得特别自然而有逻辑,一点不觉得生硬。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

putaopi
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Re: 【推荐图书】Minor Feelings

Post by putaopi » 2020-10-28 12:08

An Education 这段让我想起我的邻居,坚决禁止女儿去念Oberlin college, 拿了奖学金也不让去,宁愿付全额学费去了南加。我邻居的借口是街上有一排纹身店,而且跟旧金山没有直达航班。但我觉得她有不好直说的理由:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Lena Dunham 在Small Furnitures 和Girls里都常常提起她自己在Oberlin的生活和朋友。这个学校的写作和艺术都很强的,又特别liberal, 专门吸引养成比较先锋前卫的文人艺术家。

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