左右文人的言论自由

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幻儿
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Re: 左右文人的言论自由

Post by 幻儿 » 2020-08-10 16:51

Jun wrote:
2020-07-24 13:49
Christopher Hitchens 我也不太了解,隐约记得在 The Daily Show 上看见过他被访问,说话有英国口音。他好像是自由派文人,比较著名的是经常宣扬无神论啥的。还有就是我经常引用他的名言逗家属说: Women are not funny. That's why I can't make you laugh. :wink: (It's our ongoing private joke.)

现在终于好奇到去挖出这句名言的出处,Hitchens 在 Vanity Fair 上面的文章(2007)。为了不断章取义,间接引导读者情绪和立场,我就不截取片段过来了。大家可以去看看原文全文,I hope you enjoy it:

Why Women Aren't Funny

文章发表后被很多女文人反对批判,他又写了一篇回应的文章(2008):

Why Women Still Don't Get It

这两篇文章有点体现他不吝冒犯读者的态度。其实我觉得挺搞笑的,一方面我很理解为什么有女读者感到被冒犯了,另一方面我自己也不觉得很有所谓(不代表我同意他)。对于此类言论,我不支持叫他们闭嘴,但是我支持吵架。

只不过他能爱说啥就说啥的地位其实是一种 status and privilege,我就没见过类似的讲男性的文章在 popular culture 中出现,for example, nobody has written an article with a similar tone on why men have such thin skin。
我觉得他的文章其实还可以,但是标题非常让人想跳起来反对,另外funny or not funny,他就以stand-up comedian为标准,这标准也太窄了。莎士比亚固然funny,Jane Austen也是以witty著名的。不知道他这篇文章啰啰嗦嗦到底为了说明啥。
中间我不爱看了,直接跳到最后,他说
I am certain that this is also partly why, in all cultures, it is females who are the rank-and-file mainstay of religion, which in turn is the official enemy of all humor. One tiny snuffle that turns into a wheeze, one little cut that goes septic, one pathetically small coffin, and the woman’s universe is left in ashes and ruin. Try being funny about that, if you like. Oscar Wilde was the only person ever to make a decent joke about the death of an infant, and that infant was fictional, and Wilde was (although twice a father) a queer.
啥意思呢,拿死婴开玩笑才是funny吗???就算以这个标准,还是说Jane Austen(正好最近又在看她),她就说“Mrs. Hall of Sherbourn was brought to bed yesterday of a dead child, some weeks before she expected, oweing to a fright. -- I supposed she happened unawares to look at her husband.” 不是死婴,但是她对别人孕晚期流产开玩笑,作为脑残粉都觉得算是tasteless。还有这句“Only think of Mrs. Holder being dead! Poor woman, she has done the only thing in the world she could possibly do, to make one cease to abuse her.” 别人死了她还这么说,也很刻薄了。这些说明啥?依照这篇文章作者的标准,这才说明她funny吗?

Jun
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Re: 左右文人的言论自由

Post by Jun » 2020-08-11 15:57

Christopher Hitchens 扭捏了半天其实他的意思是女人因为生育孩子所以很严肃,而男人扮小丑因为他们就是孩子不肯长大。所以这种男女之间的母子关系(象征性的和实质性的)导致男人 funny 而女人不 funny.

换言之他是要表达一下对女性的生育能力的嫉妒之情,也许还有点说不出口的 Oedipus complex。所以他觉得你们都没看懂我的意思。

我不知道如果真有人看明白了他的意思,他是开心呢还是 freak out,因为他更加说不出口的意思是,他必须把母亲想象为不苟言笑的形象,不能忍受母亲可以说脏话,说身体器官的笑话,象男孩子(男人永远是男孩子)一样粗俗,换言之他的惊世箴言其实跟圣母大俗套来自同一根源:无法忍受低俗的拿性器官开玩笑的 ... mother。

Hitchens' mummy issues do not bother me. What bothers me is how women have been forced to pretend to keep their sons' delusion real.
Last edited by Jun on 2020-08-12 20:42, edited 4 times in total.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
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Re: 左右文人的言论自由

Post by Jun » 2020-08-12 20:09

Newsweek 是主流媒体吧?他们刚刚发了一篇 opinion (注意不是新闻报道而是 opinion),说 Kamala Harris 没资格做副总统。为啥呢?因为她不算美国公民,为啥呢?因为她出生的时候父母都不是美国公民(牙买加和印度移民),虽然她出生在 Oakland, California。也就是说这个自称是宪法教授的作者把华裔移民 Wong Kim Ark 一路打官司给所有移民子女争取来的公民权利,即生在美国就是美国公民,一笔抹杀了。

就是这么赤裸裸的 racist 和 anti-immigrant 的刷新下限论点,在 Newsweek 这种主流杂志里冠冕堂皇地发表。Remind me again whose free speech is being smothered by liberals? Hmm? 在这种大环境下抱怨保守派言论被打压了被禁言了,也不知是真瞎呢还是 ... 别有用心?
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

幻儿
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Re: 左右文人的言论自由

Post by 幻儿 » 2020-08-12 20:57

这文恶心死我了。就直接说你不喜欢Kamala Harris就得了,还假惺惺的扯什么宪法,扯什么国家利益。看最后一段:
I have no doubt that this significant challenge to Harris' constitutional eligibility to the second-highest office in the land will be dismissed out of hand as so much antiquated constitutional tripe. But the concerns about divided allegiance that led our nation's Founders to include the "natural-born citizen" requirement for the office of president and commander-in-chief remain important; indeed, with persistent threats from Russia, China and others to our sovereignty and electoral process, those concerns are perhaps even more important today. It would be an inauspicious start for any campaign for the highest offices in the land to ignore the Constitution's eligibility requirements; how else could we possibly expect the candidates, if elected, to honor their oaths to "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and...to the best of [their] Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States?"
你真要担心divided allegiance, 倒是批评一下川总啊?他和普京到底怎么回事?Kamala Harris爸是Jamaican, 妈是印度人,难道她就对美国不忠了?她当美国副总统就为了对Jamaica和印度好,她有毛病吗?

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 左右文人的言论自由

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-08-12 21:40

麻袋萌2006年主演的电影The Good Shepherd,一堆大牌参演,传说是基于CIA 的起源。麻袋萌在里面演美国特务头子,在电影尾声部分特务头子去家访意裔移民,移民老头在被盘问的最后忍不住嘴炮一下:我们有美食,黑人有音乐,你们有什么?特务头子波澜不惊地回答:The United Stated of America. You all are just visitors.
云浆未饮结成冰

唐唐的郁金香
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Re: 左右文人的言论自由

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2020-08-13 7:46

幻儿 wrote:
2020-08-12 20:57
这文恶心死我了。就直接说你不喜欢Kamala Harris就得了,还假惺惺的扯什么宪法,扯什么国家利益。看最后一段:
I have no doubt that this significant challenge to Harris' constitutional eligibility to the second-highest office in the land will be dismissed out of hand as so much antiquated constitutional tripe. But the concerns about divided allegiance that led our nation's Founders to include the "natural-born citizen" requirement for the office of president and commander-in-chief remain important; indeed, with persistent threats from Russia, China and others to our sovereignty and electoral process, those concerns are perhaps even more important today. It would be an inauspicious start for any campaign for the highest offices in the land to ignore the Constitution's eligibility requirements; how else could we possibly expect the candidates, if elected, to honor their oaths to "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and...to the best of [their] Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States?"
你真要担心divided allegiance, 倒是批评一下川总啊?他和普京到底怎么回事?Kamala Harris爸是Jamaican, 妈是印度人,难道她就对美国不忠了?她当美国副总统就为了对Jamaica和印度好,她有毛病吗?
birtherism 2.0。别说Newsweek了,NYT不还发了Tom Cotton吗,没Tom Cotton什么事,那个编辑倒是辞职了。
Ultimately, happiness comes down to choosing between the discomfort of becoming aware of your mental afflictions and the discomfort of being ruled by them. -- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

vivi
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Re: 左右文人的言论自由

Post by vivi » 2020-08-13 12:22

John Eastman 以前竞选加州的attorney general时输给Harris了,这个人以前是Thomas Clarence的clerk。Newsweek破产后卖给了Josh Hammer,给Ted Cruz的竞选干过。可笑的是Cruz是加拿大生的,他屁也没放一个。
又没头脑又不高兴

Knowing
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Re: 左右文人的言论自由

Post by Knowing » 2020-08-14 3:49

就像Obama的“穆斯林”其实是“黑人”的代替词 ,KH的南亚血统和不是妈妈(她没生过孩子,虽然是后妈)从现在开始会被共和党当作“黑人”的代替词大张旗鼓的攻击,拉郊区白妈的选票。
听了点她第一次作为VP候选人的讲话,直接fullon攻击川皇,真觉得痛快。作为工作女性我很认同她:干脆,直接,功课做的十足十,有备而来。我们得到的每一分职业尊重都需要加倍努力挣倒,犯不起错误损失(不像老白男拜登嘴松乱讲永远得到原谅)。她咄咄逼人的prosecutor 态度,我自己没有而巴不得有,羡慕的很。
Nevertheless, she persisted.

Jun
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Re: 左右文人的言论自由

Post by Jun » 2020-09-07 10:00

前几天因为人类学者 David Graeber 猝死而又想起所谓的言论自由和 cancel culture,以及 political correctness 的压迫。

Graeber 因为跟占领华尔街和 1% 言论的关联而著名,之前倒也听说过,但没听说过他因为参与课外政治活动被耶鲁大学(which will forever be associated with Yes Means Anal in my head) 开除,虽然他的 activism 并没有影响到他的教课,也没有直接煽动学生闹革命。参见当时的纽时报道:

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/28/nyre ... -yale.html

说实话,这一套话术很象十几年前的恐怖主义争论。简而言之就是,窃钩者和窃国者的区别。手中权力少的人喊两声,就成了社会公敌,大事不妙欺负到统治阶级头上了。而手中权力多的人随便儿控制大众思想和行为,这叫维稳,秩序,为你好。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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