The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

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Jun
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The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2019-11-15 8:59

Image

画了一张图。

Jean-Pierre Melville 那里本来想写 French New Wave 的,但是对此类影片了解不多,不好意思整个都拉进来。

虽然想尽量不把电影之外的东西带进来(例如硬汉派侦探小说和武侠小说),但是不得不包括存在主义哲学。

当然越到后面,lineage 就越模糊。Tarantino 只是一个代表,实际上极多现代好莱坞影人都深受上面类型片影响,也包括星球大战系列。
Last edited by Jun on 2019-11-22 10:40, edited 1 time in total.
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2019-11-15 18:56

Jun的字写得不错嘛。
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Jun
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema

Post by Jun » 2019-11-16 9:07

笑嘻嘻过奖了。

昨天在网上看到访谈 Pedro Pascal 的视频,他说他主演的新剧 The Mandalorian 是西部片和 Samurai 片子的混合。其实大家都看得出是西部片啦,但他非要强调也有 Samurai 片的成分!
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema

Post by mirrorflower » 2019-11-17 12:33

笑嘻嘻 wrote:
2019-11-15 18:56
Jun的字写得不错嘛。
哈哈,我第一反应也是:Jun的字蛮乖嘛?(就是清秀女生那种感觉)
"A wealth of information creates a poverty of attention."

Jun
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema

Post by Jun » 2019-11-18 13:49

本来想在PPT上画个标准的示意图,嫌麻烦就手画了,然而马上就发现了问题:Spaghetti Western 和 Samurai Movies 之间应该是双向箭头而非单向。另外 Samurai 是英文标准拼法,我老记错成 Samourai,都怪 Melville 的电影题目 Le Samourai 就是错的。看样子还得重画一遍。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2019-11-18 16:34

还要手写的。
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Jun
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema

Post by Jun » 2019-11-18 19:29

好吧,我受宠若惊地说,上一张重画的网络图。

Image

前两天胡乱翻油管上真田广之的视频,惊骇地发现真田大叔横跨日本、香港、美国三地的武打片,真是各流派动作片的纽带式人物,最近还在 HBO 剧集 Westworld 里面担任重要角色,现身说法各国电影之间的紧密关联。

(真田广之还演过 Merchant-Ivory 文艺片,在银幕上跟 Anthony Hopkins 深情接吻。)
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2019-11-18 19:38

咿,字都端庄了,不倾斜了。
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema

Post by Jun » 2019-11-18 19:39

写多了就更笨拙了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2019-11-18 19:43

感觉字写得很有self consciousness. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema

Post by Jun » 2019-11-18 19:45

你和镜花都盯着我的字儿看,能不 self conscious 嘛。再说我想让读者能看明白,不好乱涂。 :lol:

刚看了两集 The Mandalorian,里面男主角带了一个 Baby Yoda 在沙漠里晃来晃去,Baby Yoda 还是装在一个浮动的球里,我差点跳起来,这这这明明就是 Lone Wolf and Cub 带子狼么!!怪不得 Pedro Pascal 拼命说 Samurai movies。

Image
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2019-11-22 10:50

第三集 The Mandalorian 放出来了,我欣喜地看到迪士尼 going full Lone Wolf and Cub!

剧组特别 manipulative 地造出 Baby Yoda (official name "The Child"):

Image

对比一下原版带子狼中的 "the child" 拜大五郎小朋友:

Image

秀美纯真,超级可爱哦。

在六部系列片中,年仅三岁的大五郎君手刃了不少爸爸的敌人,让人目眩神迷。我一边看一边忍不住猜想拍摄时到底是怎样的情况呢?难道剧组就把孩子演员扔在一边目睹若山富三郎打打杀杀血浆狂飞吗?考虑到1970年代的日本电影行业大概也没啥儿童保障措施,真令人涅把汗。我还很八卦地去查了演员富川晶宏,发现他后来完全没有演过电影,唯一的消息是成年之后犯罪被抓进监狱。。。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2019-11-22 12:28

这是童年创伤吗...
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2019-11-25 16:40

最近在 binge 各色日本剑戮片武打片时,不可避免地遇到了一个叫做“忠臣藏”(亦称“赤穗浪士”)的故事,据说是 quintessential element in the collective unconscious. 跟印度的 Mahabharata 和 Ramayana 一样,被反复传唱,直到现在,歌舞伎、古装剧集(“时代剧”)、古装片里还不停翻拍,一年总能看到好几版新制作。这个貌似典型的复仇故事,呵呵,细想也是很有趣的。

我又来画示意图了。

Image

当然日本的武侠小说作者远不止柴田炼三郎,漫画作者远不止小池一夫,不过我只知道这几个人罢了。最近翻剑戮片时代剧什么的,简直一转身就碰见小池一夫,他也太多产了吧。
Last edited by Jun on 2019-11-27 11:09, edited 1 time in total.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2019-11-25 22:59

小白小白,Jun现在写字比你好看了。

Robert Stevenson 的游记是我的最爱。
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by tiffany » 2019-11-26 6:20

几个意思,难道不是她一直写字比我好看吗?
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2019-11-26 6:46

这字儿有啥好看的,我自己都不好意思敝帚自珍了。

你们重点错。老子还有一个示意图要画,不过得找找资料背景,深感知识不足。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2019-11-26 9:23

One last diagram! :dog001:

Image
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2019-11-29 8:11

昨晚在把 Thanksgiving dinner 吃得脑满肠肥后回家躺着的 turkey haze 中,不知为啥就去搜了一下 Anurag Kashyap 最近在鼓捣个啥,然后就发现一只视频 Anurag Kashyap 介绍他的 DVD collection 和五个(最后还变成了六个)最喜欢的电影前辈推荐。

他一上来就介绍 Samuel Fuller,我暗暗乍舌,根本听都没听说过耶,太专业了;第二个是 Fritz Lang,哇,也是高大上啊,我只看过 Metropolis。然后第三个一说出来我就爆笑:Jean-Pierre Melville! :love015: 哈哈哈,谢谢 Anurag 替我画的联网示意图 back up 哦! :admir002: 然后呢,第四个是超早期黑泽明(我没看过但是知道他早期非常热衷 film noir 的题材和风格),第五个是 Kinji Fukasaku 的系列片 Battles without Honor and Humanity. 我没听说过就去搜了一下,哇!深作欣二没看过也听说过如雷贯耳的大名,而这一套片子就是经典的 Yakuza films 嘛!简直让我得意死了。 :monkey001:

(Note to self: 赶紧滚去看里见八犬传!)
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2019-12-13 9:40

哈哈哈哈,Pop Culture Happy Hour 在讨论 The Mandalorian 里面也提到了 Lone Wolf and Cub,YAY! :admir002:

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/10/78681704 ... he-episode
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2019-12-15 15:51

The Mandalorian 放出了第六集,只剩两集就要结束第一季了(第二季已经在准备),很多人对每集情节独立成章,似乎缺乏大方向,表示不满。如果考虑到原型是 Lone Wolf and Cub 就不奇怪了,除了第一部铺垫前因和最后一部死对头大决战(甚至未达成结果就停拍了),中间都是 episodic 的故事,男主角出租自己(刺客),出租孩子(给别人玩),每接一单生意收金子五百两。

现在我看 Baby Yoda 会忍不住在脑子里叫它“大五郎”。(有趣的是大五郎在电影里也没有对话,虽然演到后来他早就到了说话的年纪,只是有时会喊声“爸”。)

豆瓣上有篇文章大五郎的诅咒,挺逗的。希望 Baby Yoda 长大了之后可别进监狱啊。

Image

这集 The Mandalorian 里还采用了一个被吴宇森用滥的桥段 Mexican Standoff (虽然意大利伪西部片里 Sergio Leone 早就用过了)。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2019-12-28 19:16

在 Criterion Channel 上重看了 Jean-Pierre Melville 的 Le Samourai,主要因为这部片子是一张大网的中心。它往回连接上三四十年代的美国黑帮片和硬汉派侦探片,平行同时代连接上黑泽明的古装剑侠片,向下连接了吴宇森和杜琪峰的香港黑帮片,以及美国的黑帮片。上次找来看这部片子还是迷恋吴宇森枪战片的年代,听说是吴导最爱,好奇去瞅一眼,发现跟吴导的风格简直相反,摸不着头脑。

Image

这次重看才发现第一次完全没看懂剧情。实际上 Melville 故意把情节搞得十分隐晦(著名的对话稀少),比较关键的情节在影片最后二十分钟里匆忙暗示一笔,简直是生怕观众看明白了,忙不迭地遮掩起来。

看完之后我还对自己的理解略微有点不放心,去搜了几篇名影评的评论,然而这些评论也是云山雾罩,貌似Roger Ebert, David Thomson这些著名影评人等等也是统统没看懂剧情。我只好原谅了当年的自己——没看明白是正常的!

那么问题就来了,Melville 为啥这么扭扭捏捏遮遮掩掩呢?我个人的推测是,男主角的动机(即作者本人的感情和意图)实在是太三屉馒头了,令他深觉羞耻,所以必须用特冷峻 macho 的风格来掩盖之。将剧情细想推测一下,便可以直接连上 Raymond Chandler 的硬汉派侦探小说。所以,吴宇森翻拍成喋血双雄,cheesy 之极的激情表达,其实是得到了 Melville 的真髓本意。

西方男人真是深受 toxic masculinity 毒害,远远不如胜新太郎那样放肆地表达黏糊而“女性”的情感来得诚实健康。

--------------

The Mandalorian, aka Lone Wolf and Cub in Space, 结束了第一季八集。最后一集里干脆把大五郎小朋友,aka Baby Yoda,塞到 Pedro Pascal 手里明确地告诉他:从今以后你就是它爹!

还好 Baby Yoda 是由木偶演出的,不用拖来一个三岁真小孩儿来目睹打打杀杀的场面,哪怕是演戏呢。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-17 8:46

最近看了一部深作欣二的时代剧影片,柳生一族的阴谋。早有耳闻的经典,好不容易找到了中文字幕,鼓捣到深夜才搞定,看完之后真正被震撼了。 :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: 看完后时常回想好久。

George Lucas 还抄这个。Pale imitation indeed.

可惜我不认识任何爱看此类电影的朋友,想强荐这部片子都找不到人。也许未来会找个时间系统地介绍推荐几部日本古装武侠片。

Image
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by tiffany » 2020-01-17 9:56

佩服一下儿 jun 君,这么丑的人,我看一眼海报,完全没有兴趣看电影。
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-17 10:34

白博跟我是同代人吗?没有经历过冷面粗犷的高仓健风靡中国成为大众情人的那一段时期?(BTW,我在油管上找了找《追捕》原版,没有,只有中文配音版。当时中国人民看见几乎面无表情的男主,被震撼得七荤八素,不知道这种表情是日本武侠片里的标配。)

追捕中的男二号原田芳雄在柳生一族中演个配角。此片明星云集,可能是东映最后一部时代巨作了。贴张十七岁的真田小队长在此片中的剧照。影片里还有三个形象十分鲜明的女角色,不仅美貌而且能打。

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千叶真一在里面主演独眼龙柳生十兵卫,也是挺帅的,又能打。

Image

千叶师父对徒弟真田广之确实是好得不得了,简直没见过这么亲密的师徒关系。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by tiffany » 2020-01-17 10:46

当然经历过高仓健的洗礼,那我也还是觉得他丑 :mrgreen:
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by 豪情 » 2020-01-17 18:10

跑题说我不怎么知道高仓健,去看了wiki发现他的婚姻和前妻真是悲剧。
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-01-18 17:45

高仓健风靡那时候,我还小呢。 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
其实是,我的审美始终如一,我小时候就喜欢奶油小生三浦友和。对坚毅大叔无感。
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-18 18:00

那我在上面贴阿兰德龙,还不算奶油么?你也不看呀。

高仓健好像在日本不是很红 ... 三浦友和更不红了。

不过也许我也不知道怎样才算红,我觉得很赞的或者在日本之外的评论界深受敬仰的那些人(如三船敏郎),也许在日本群众里也完全不红。(木村天皇肯定是红的。)

白博和笑嘻嘻,难道你们从来都不看没有帅哥但是超精彩的作品么?不会吧?
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-01-18 18:12

看啊,但是这不是实在话题插不上嘴,只好随便瞎起哄捧个人场嘛。
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-18 18:15

笑嘻嘻 wrote:
2020-01-18 18:12
看啊,但是这不是实在话题插不上嘴,只好随便瞎起哄捧个人场嘛。
嗯嗯,谢谢。 :heartpump:

阿兰德龙这样的要看吗?好笑的是前阵子在搜 Le Samourai 有关的文章时看见男影迷吐槽说,阿兰德龙这样算美吗?女里女气。这绝对是极小众观点了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-01-18 18:27

不是。你得按照你自己的想法写,不能听我们瞎起哄的。我们(可能也只是我)只是表达,虽然我们(可能也只是我)根本不知道你在讲些啥,但是我们(可能也只是我)也来到此一游,读过了的。
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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-18 18:35

那好吧。

武侠片,黑帮片,警匪片,international gangster movies,这种类型的确是没办法贩卖美貌,演员气质不够狠就没法拍了。其实我倒是不反对让美貌与凶狠造成强烈反差。可惜女导演涉猎此类型片几乎没有,只能想到 Kathryn Bigelow 启用 Keanu Reeves 算是有点 ...

想起杜琪峰的枪火,里面比较迎合女性观众的吕颂贤被挑中,演几个哥儿们中最没用的的那一个,好典型的态度。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by 豪情 » 2020-01-18 19:33

没用二字可圈可点。
却将万字平戎策 换得东家种树书

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-18 21:27

枪火里各种象征意义,细想真的挺有趣。

-----------------

颜值高的武士片来啦来啦:

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笑死我。日本影视真是投其所好不择手段啊,我赶紧推荐给家属去看。

在阿马桑 prime 上有字幕版。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-01-19 0:27

凶狠和美貌也是可以结合的,吧?
云浆未饮结成冰

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-19 9:44

笑嘻嘻 wrote:
2020-01-19 0:27
凶狠和美貌也是可以结合的,吧?
Keanu Reeves 吧?叹气,其实我还挺喜欢这个类型的,在电视上第一次看到影片 Point Break 的片段,就直觉地喜欢了。这片子毕竟是女导演拍的,各种眼熟的梗。 :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Keanu 虽然浪费了几年追逐莎士比亚剧,最后还是走上了正路——武打片!我欣慰地笑了。

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说到 Keanu,难免联想到年轻时代的田村正和,被小说作者钦点演出眠狂四郎剧集,也是美貌而杀人无数,不过剧集年代久远难以找到。

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早一点的市川雷藏电影版的眠狂四郎系列倒是在油管上可以看到英文字幕版,颜值略低不过也挺帅的了,都蛮好看的。

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说到 androgyny 式的审美观,不得不提起三岛由纪夫。他在欧美 intellectual 圈子里忒红,我暗地里揣测,也许他提供了一个让欧美男学者投射和发泄自身的欲望(平时被恐同感强烈压抑)的途径。仅仅是这方面就可以哗哗哗写上一大篇,不过我不太了解,只看过一部 黑蜥蜴(还是因为导演是深作欣二才去看的),呵呵呵呵,太那啥了 ... 勉强可以算在 gangster 类型片中吧。

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There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-19 14:40

既然 The Empire Strikes Back 是重点抄袭《柳生一族的阴谋》的出品,那么,Return of the Jedi (1983) 有没有抄袭柳生一族的续集《魔界转生》 (1981) 呢?

The answer is YAAAAAASSSSS!!!!

哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈~~~~~ (此处代入日本恐怖片里女鬼的笑声。) :laughting015: :laughting015: :laughting015: :laughting015:

有空也许会详细介绍一下深作欣二的这两部巨作。我真是太喜欢太喜欢了。

(这一部也是时间上掐得很紧,ROTJ 是1982年初就开始拍摄的,但据说剧本一直迟迟写不完,一边写一边拍,也相当吻合。)
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by tiffany » 2020-01-19 15:46

以前邵氏专门找美人演武侠,比如狄龙郑佩佩,可表说投名状不凶残。
我也不知道我有啥point,但是,就是,表示下美人也可以凶残的。
有酒有酒 闲饮东窗

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-19 18:03

郑佩佩,徐枫,都是美的。狄龙傅声姜大卫嘛 ... 那是因为张老师的个人爱好。 :wicked:

如果我没记错的话,投名状里的刘偶像故意穿得破破烂烂。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2020-01-19 18:34

我,忽然,有点,觉得,可能吧,这个演员的美不美跟时代的演员薪酬有关吧?重赏之下必有勇夫。另外,从前日本电影都是什么人去电影院看电影?从前的家庭妇女不大可能去电影院吧?电视机普及时间是’80年代?
https://eml.berkeley.edu//~saez/moriguc ... 5japan.pdf
云浆未饮结成冰

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-19 19:19

笑嘻嘻 wrote:
2020-01-19 18:34
从前日本电影都是什么人去电影院看电影?从前的家庭妇女不大可能去电影院吧?电视机普及时间是’80年代?
对!电视普及令观众群的变化!大力拍笑嘻嘻的背,你说的太有道理了! :applaudit01:
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-01-20 9:04

学到一个日文词,或许对我们的“美貌而凶狠”的角色讨论 shed some light.

一枚目:男主角
二枚目:美貌男
三枚目:搞笑男

这是歌舞伎中的固定人物分配,类似于京剧中的老生,小生,丑角之类。

这里的假设是,男一号应该是老生??男二号应该是小生,男三则是丑角。

戏剧中的传统角色分配传达的也是社会结构。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-02-02 19:39

最近看了几部有千叶真一参演的片子,真是让我惊掉了下巴。

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他年轻时是体操运动员,后来进入影界成为打星,并且在银幕下练过各种武功,从剑道到柔道到空手道都有涉猎,不象大部分明星仅靠花拳绣腿。

日本电影黄金时代的神奇之处在于经常看不出雅俗之分,黑泽明拍的既是莎剧也是武侠片,演员更是不分类型地到处演出,如典型的功夫明星真田广之也会去演极其文艺的麻雀放浪记。

千叶真一被深作欣二选中出演了不少影片包括 yakuza 片子,后来自己组织了一个武打学校,总觉得有点模仿元家班的感觉,并且带出小辈打星拍武打片。我很惊奇地发现早在1975年他就主演过一部片子叫做 《少林寺拳法》!(这片子我还没找到片源)当然不是他自己导演的,而是找擅长情色片的铃木则文,但明显是千叶真一自主的戏。不,故事并非设在少林寺,而是讲一个在二战里在中国学到少林拳法的日本人回国之后流落街头行侠仗义的故事。

在搜柳生十兵卫影片时,无意中在阿玛桑上撞见一部叫做 Shogun's Ninja 的片子,也是千叶真一策划制作,铃木则文导演的,给人非常 ... 迷乱的感觉。

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之前说过香港的武侠片深受60年代日本剑戮片影响,确凿无疑。然而这部片子里香港武打片的影响也是亮瞎人的狗眼。男主角真田广之小时候被仇家灭门,被忠仆带到中国(!)学会少林功夫(!),以港片式的民国的发型和服装回到十六世纪的日本(!)为父母报仇!!这部片子的神奇之处在于港日典型桥段和元素的无缝衔接:宏大炫目的森林外景(日),裸露上身的肌肉男(港),历史真人真事为背景(日),各色非常规武器(港),忍者秘门奇术(日),杂技般在树上飞来飞去(...?),略尴尬的 physical comedy(直接来自成龙洪金宝的乡村武打片套路),死人又多又快几乎团灭(日),男主与仇人决斗打戏(港)。

片子里甚至还有个中国美女(志穗美惠子),大老远跑来找男主重叙旧情并且参与战斗,貌似还说了两句中文!可惜视频已经完全是英文配音(又一处跟老式港片交集的特点),听不出她说了啥,什么口音。简直了。

难怪千叶老头跟成龙等人混得贼熟,后来更是把徒弟引入香港电影,自己也在港片里留下一长串角色呢。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-03-19 12:31

呃 ... 今天看到一篇豆瓣文章,吓哭了。
横沟正史对古龙和金庸的影响有多大,你可能想不到

杨麒麟 评论 三首塔 2018-01-13 19:23:06

越看横沟正史越觉得,古龙小说中有关“邪恶”的描写,几乎全部继承于横沟正史。《武林外史》受《三首塔》影响极深,王怜花这个风华绝代的反派,应该是以该书中的邪恶美少年古坂史郎为原型,朱七七则以女主角“我”宫本音袮为原型,主角高头俊作应该同时是《流星蝴蝶剑》中律香川的原型。
但还不止于此。

横沟正史对金庸的影响甚至不下于对古龙的影响。在这本书中,你可以看到高头俊作对女主音袮强暴后二人的炽热感情对《倚天屠龙记》中杨逍和纪晓芙之恋的启发,看到隐藏于所有案件之后的上杉伯父对《天龙八部》中萧远山和慕容博的影响,看到高头俊作和高头五郎身份互换对《侠客行》中石破天和石中玉的影响,看到困守在暗井中的高头俊作和音袮七日七夜绝食和性爱对《射雕英雄传》中郭靖和黄蓉密室修行、《倚天屠龙记》中张无忌和赵敏地牢中的调情、《天龙八部》中虚竹和公主在冰窟中的恩爱、段誉和王语嫣在枯井中的缠绵的影响,也可以看到三首塔的焚毁对《书剑恩仇录》中的六和塔、《倚天屠龙记》中万安寺纵火焚毁的影响,看到上杉伯父对音袮的畸恋对《射雕英雄传》中黄药师对梅超风畸恋的影响,看到表面温柔内心邪恶使用皮鞭的少女由香利对《倚天屠龙记》中朱九真的影响……《三首塔》创作于1955年,正是这一年,金庸以《书剑恩仇录》进入侠坛,从此开启了一个神话。

横沟正史太厉害了。
说起来我还真看过横沟正史的一本历史小说(内含两篇中篇),算不上武侠吧,很奇怪的结构。现在是不是应该去看看三首塔呢?

金庸自由承认西洋传奇小说对自己的影响,但闭口不谈日本小说,好鸡贼!

现在我产生一种很寒的感觉,仿佛现代中文武侠小说就是被刷了白墙的日本武侠小说 ... (鼠窜中) :dog001:
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-03-23 9:45

在微博上看见有人说,在读押井守的书里提到自己去《星球大战》首映会场里碰见深作欣二,身边跟着俩保镖状大块头,心想“深作欣二也看星球大战啊。”

我简直笑昏掉。大概深作欣二没想到,这时候星球大战抄黑泽明,三年后星球大战的续集就抄了自己!
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-03-29 21:09

刚看在 Criterion 上看了一部不算很好的 film noir "Gilda",真惨,film noir 里有没有不是 homoerotic 主题的?好像本来就没有!就跟 Raymond Chandler 自己的那个调调一样。 :preston_robot_collar:
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-04-09 21:40

讲一个最近发现的精彩例子,几可与 ESB 山寨柳生一族的例子媲美。

阿玛桑上面不是有 prime 免费的修复邵氏电影吗?前阵子推给我张彻早期电影《边城三侠》,这片子还挺有名的,是大师兄王羽成名作之一。于是我就看了,惊奇地发现情节十分复杂曲折,人物众多,非常不象张彻后来的电影,剧本简单粗暴,人物关系单线。特别让我震撼的是里面对于官府和农民之间的阶级斗争描述得非常凶残惨烈,特别新奇,说不出的奇异。

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注意,中国式故事里也常有官府与民间的斗争冲突,但不是这样子的,官府虽然很坏,但农民仍有击鼓鸣冤以及当街拦截巡抚轿子的例子。这个故事里也有申诉状子可以递上去,但是却毫无用处。官府恶人也有水浒传高衙内那样的反面典型,就是这样还费尽周折去找人暗杀林冲,但是这里对于官府的描述真是相当罕见的毫不留情呀,狠毒到一定程度了。为什么呢?为什么呢?此片的编剧是张彻,我真的被他的创意惊到了。

然后今天去看看“爱伦坡的小酒馆”在B站上放的视频。好象是这几年的新型现象,国内网站以各种借口大清洗很多轮,终于让人再也看不到盗版片绝版片小众外国片,以及民间字幕组的作品了;subsequently,有很多人开始自己剪电影片段,加以讲解,让大家过过干瘾。这个 up主制作的片子有一半都是战后日本时代剧武侠片之类,所以我当然就被吸引了。

今天看见了啥呢?他介绍了五社英雄导演丹波哲郎主演的电影《三匹之侍》(三武士),一眼就能看出剧情跟边城三侠一样!原来如此!我就说呢!这样的情节,在战后左翼的日本时代剧里简直太常见了,从座头市到修罗雪姬到切腹,阶级斗争不仅惨烈而且绝望,所以这个剧情放在日本剑戮片里就是普通套路。张老湿还抄得很细致很彻底,连申冤的状子扔掉河里又被捡起来的败笔桥段也抄了过来,当然编剧一栏里大言不惭地填上自己的名,一字不提五社英雄。啧啧,I 服了 U。

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三匹之侍上映于1964年,而边城三侠士1966年,哇,当年抄起来可真是神速呀。

我从日本时代剧和武侠小说里得到的印象确实如此,日本古代的阶级压迫比中国古代更加严苛,完全没有反抗的希望之光,也没有巡抚大人的轿子可以拦下来。中国的庞大官僚系统,我们都知道它的腐败和压榨等各种弊端,然而还有更糟糕的制度呢。

且不管现实到底如何,我越来越觉得中国文艺的整体底色/态度,跟美国文艺其实很类似,虽然有各种人间悲剧,但不必过于 dwell on the dark side,毕竟未来还是有希望的,好官/好制度还是能拯救我们的。日本电影的感觉有本质上的不同。也许只是战后一代的悲观色调?然而看看早一点的武侠小说和经久不衰的全民 mythology 忠臣藏,感觉并非孤立现象。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: The Web of Pulp Cinema (and modern imitators)

Post by Jun » 2020-10-30 8:54

啊啊啊,星际带子狼,aka The Mandalorian,第二季放出来了。

Tim Olyphant 在里面以 bounty hunter 形象出现了。

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There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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