zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

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Jun
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-09 16:31

华盛顿邮报报道,阿拉巴马州的共和党 Senate 候选人 Roy Moore 曾经与十四岁女孩子发生性关系,当时他32岁。同时另有两位女性承认在18岁之前被 Moore 追求过。

阿拉巴马州需要在12月初选出代替 Jeff Sessions 的参议员,因为是极落后的深红州,在共和党初选中胜出的 Moore 本来是稳拿的,这下有麻烦了。问题在于国会的共和党领导们都受不了 Moore 的极端政治立场,然而拦不住阿拉巴马的共和党选民喜欢极端分子。现在共和党领导有借口可以取消他的资格,但是马上把自己人换上来可能来不及。。。

To be honest this is no big deal in Alabama. 老男人睡小女孩是南方各州的光荣传统,非常非常普遍,连我都听说过多次了。
Last edited by Jun on 2017-11-09 16:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Knowing
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-11-09 16:36

CK Lewis 也被爆在其他演员面前手淫。我很郁闷的,很多都是还挺喜欢的演员,怎么都跟地铁上的变态一样。总算Roy Moore 爆了一个是我讨厌的!现在他也不能drop out 了
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-09 20:31

出于好奇,我搜了一下 child marriage。一搜吓一跳,十八岁以下未成年人结婚在美国每个州都是合法的,而且在很多州里非常容易。就在最近,PBS 的新闻调查节目 Frontline 做了一系列报道,正是关于这个话题的:

Child Marriage in America

具体的数据在下面这个链接:

http://apps.frontline.org/child-marriag ... e-numbers/

从2000年到2015年之间,全美国有至少二十万以上的未成年人结婚。结婚的未成年人中,87%是女孩子,5%是十五岁及以下。
One of the oldest people to marry a child was a 74-year-old in Alabama. His bride was 14. (The state later raised its minimum marriage age to 16).
反堕胎主义是未成年人婚姻的最大原因之一。阿拉巴马还不算差的,最严重的是德州,在这15年里,至少四万未成年人结婚。

一个未成年女孩子,如果被爹妈嫁给成年男人,在大多数州内并没有法律保护下的反对权力。
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幻儿
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 幻儿 » 2017-11-10 13:54

Louis C.K. 道歉了。下面是全文。我感觉比较mixed。 一方面觉得他的道歉算是最诚恳的了,最起码承认那些都是真的,不像Weinstein和Spacey都没大方承认。另一方面他也太自恋了,这个声明里说了四次admire。。。

I want to address the stories told to the New York Times by five women named Abby, Rebecca, Dana, Julia who felt able to name themselves and one who did not.

These stories are true. At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question. It’s a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly.

I have been remorseful of my actions. And I've tried to learn from them. And run from them. Now I’m aware of the extent of the impact of my actions. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position.

I also took advantage of the fact that I was widely admired in my and their community, which disabled them from sharing their story and brought hardship to them when they tried because people who look up to me didn't want to hear it. I didn't think that I was doing any of that because my position allowed me not to think about it. There is nothing about this that I forgive myself for. And I have to reconcile it with who I am. Which is nothing compared to the task I left them with.

I wish I had reacted to their admiration of me by being a good example to them as a man and given them some guidance as a comedian, including because I admired their work.

The hardest regret to live with is what you've done to hurt someone else. And I can hardly wrap my head around the scope of hurt I brought on them. I’d be remiss to exclude the hurt that I’ve brought on people who I work with and have worked with whose professional and personal lives have been impacted by all of this, including projects currently in production: the cast and crew of Better Things, Baskets, The Cops, One Mississippi, and I Love You, Daddy. I deeply regret that this has brought negative attention to my manager Dave Becky who only tried to mediate a situation that I caused. I’ve brought anguish and hardship to the people at FX who have given me so much The Orchard who took a chance on my movie, and every other entity that has bet on me through the years.

I’ve brought pain to my family, my friends, my children and their mother.

I have spent my long and lucky career talking and saying anything I want. I will now step back and take a long time to listen. Thank you for reading.

幻儿
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 幻儿 » 2017-11-10 14:02

以前和某男生说起这个话题,他说他感觉非常confusing。一方面他同意一定要尊重女性,但另一方面Fifty shades of grey那类书那么畅销,是女人写的也是女人爱看的,又比如《飘》里白瑞德rape郝思嘉之后第二天早上郝思嘉非常高兴而白瑞德羞愧避走,他说这难道不说明很多女生某种程度上喜欢被强迫的感觉吗?尊重与强迫,这个度怎么把握呢?
我听了也不得不承认对于小男生来说,他们在生活中社会上接收到的message确实是比较confusing的。我也承认郝思嘉的心理是真实的,但那也不代表女的喜欢被强迫啊,我也不知道怎么解释。。。

Jun
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-10 14:23

We all need to have an honest discussion about ... power.
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唐唐的郁金香
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2017-11-10 15:13

Jun wrote:We all need to have an honest discussion about ... power.
展开说说?Sex = power? Women want to be overpowered? 遗传选择?为了生育最强的下一代?

幻儿的疑问我也有。作为一个对霸道总裁文毫无兴趣的人,很想知道为甚么那么多人着迷,其中不乏受过高等教育的独立女性。
“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "... But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien

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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2017-11-10 17:30

“Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.”

― Oscar Wilde
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-10 18:19

Louis CK 的自白书细看是很有趣的,一边说自己没认识到 power 的压迫作用让女人说不出反对话,一边又用 "admiration" 来掩饰 power 的实质。直白说出来其实就是,你是男人,你还很红,所以在娱乐喜剧圈内你说话很响,人脉广大,无权无势的女同行不仅不敢得罪你,还要把你哄得开开心心的,虽然内心觉得恶心,未尝不想把你哄高兴了,提携一把,分一杯羹。靠自己奋斗得奋斗到猴年马月啊,谁理睬你女相声演员啊。

推荐NPR上的某个报道,一定要听到最后关于masculinity这段:

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/56023123 ... ut-why-now
That problem is the way boys are raised, says Way. She's been looking at this for more than two decades — her book is called Deep Secrets: Boys' Friendships and the Crisis of Connection. "We essentially raise boys in a culture that asks them to disconnect from their core humanity, which is their desire for relationships and all sorts of things the boys articulate that they want," she says. "Not only disconnect from it, but say 'if you are that way, emotional, relational et cetera, you're not a man.'" Way says that leads to a culture that accepts lonely and aggressive boys, and ultimately puts them in positions of power.

I ran this idea by some students at American University. Men and women alike nodded in agreement. "The first thing that came to my mind is the whole 'boys will be boys' thing," says Jean Thompson. She and fellow student Matt Goldan point to movies and TV shows that depict the old stereotypes: Superman. Romantic comedies.

"In the culture, you have a sense of toxic masculinity, where men are kind of expected to have bravado, to be a little bit more aggressive in talking to women," he says. "Pay for dinner," Thompson interjects. "Pay for dinner, yeah, absolutely," Goldan says. "So right off the bat you have a sense of very very different roles. And I think it makes it easier for that whole messaging to get distorted in a way that could be conducive to sexual assault.

And not just sexual assault, says Niobe Way, but all kinds of violence. She says our culture continues to divide these problems as if their roots are different. "We look at mass violence and we're all writing articles about mass violence. Then we have a rapist and we're all writing articles about rape. The we have an article about police violence and we're focused on police violence, without understanding there's a common root across these problems. If you raise boys to go against their nature, some of them will grow up and act crazy."
问题不仅是这个文化是怎样抚育男孩子的,也包括这个文化是怎样抚育女孩子的。所谓对于 "masculinity" 的盲目崇拜,并不见得是对于男性 gender 的崇拜,而是对于特定的权力定义的崇拜,以互斗和 dominance/submission 为主题而狭隘定义的人际关系,并且在这个框架里给男性和女性,leaders and followers, winners and losers,进行简单粗暴的分类和指定。这个文化对于人与人之间的复杂微妙,彼此依赖,dynamic and ever-shifting 的性质毫无兴趣甚至避之不及。

Are men naturally aggressive and dominant? Are women born submissive and cooperative? 女性天生都渴望被 dominate 吗?男性天生都渴望 dominate 别人吗?

推荐一部我自己还没看但是听上去很有趣的影片,讲的是 Wonder Woman 的作者,心理学家 Marston 和他的一妻一妾的事迹。(别被“一妻一妾”吓到了,并不是那么俗套的故事。)
Professor Marston and the Wonder Women

Humans are social animals. One quality about humans that is consistently underestimated in academia is how people behave in accordance with their social expectations, ie, the urge to "fit in" and be accepted by one's social environment.

不记得在哪里读到的,谁做的研究,批评传统心理和行为学研究把天生 nature 和后天 nurture 的作用对立起来,而最为关键的机制却被忽略了:the interaction of nature and nurture and how this interaction shapes people inside and out.
-----------

现在越来越多的女性受害者出来控诉被男性,or more precisely, power,侮辱和骚扰。It's a good thing and long overdue. 同时,仅仅是群众们义愤填膺地出来谴责一番 sexual perverts,然后各人满腔道德优越感地回家了,这是远远不够的,甚至适得其反地强化清教徒文化里喜欢揪出个体来批斗的倾向。

如果没有反省和探索美国文化底蕴中的清教徒禁欲和虚伪的传统(跟中国文化有不约而同的吻合),以及对于权力/masculinity 的变态崇拜,以及整个社会对人际关系的不健康态度,这些控诉也就象一阵风一样刮过去,搞倒一批又上来一批换汤不换药的,没有触及灵魂。我个人觉得美国文化还没有达到能够深入而彻底地探讨 sexual harassment 以及 gender politics/power 的程度。It's not ready.

----------
我听了也不得不承认对于小男生来说,他们在生活中社会上接收到的message确实是比较confusing的。我也承认郝思嘉的心理是真实的,但那也不代表女的喜欢被强迫啊,我也不知道怎么解释。。。
很好的问题,引出另一个问题:为什么每个具体的男人和女人不能坦诚而且平等地讨论negotiate,你想要什么?我想要什么?我能给你什么?你能给我什么?你能满足我吗?我能满足你吗?

It's damned near impossible in this society.
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dancelord
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by dancelord » 2017-11-12 13:38

幻儿 wrote:以前和某男生说起这个话题,他说他感觉非常confusing。一方面他同意一定要尊重女性,但另一方面Fifty shades of grey那类书那么畅销,是女人写的也是女人爱看的,又比如《飘》里白瑞德rape郝思嘉之后第二天早上郝思嘉非常高兴而白瑞德羞愧避走,他说这难道不说明很多女生某种程度上喜欢被强迫的感觉吗?尊重与强迫,这个度怎么把握呢?
我听了也不得不承认对于小男生来说,他们在生活中社会上接收到的message确实是比较confusing的。我也承认郝思嘉的心理是真实的,但那也不代表女的喜欢被强迫啊,我也不知道怎么解释。。。
灰和飘的RAPE都建立在双方是有感情的基础上的。在那个时候开始是真的不愿意,但是后来不管是心理和生理都受到影响并软化,这个当然还涉及到更深的心理因素,这里就不展开讨论了。不过从最肤浅的来讲,同样是陌生人过来撩,英俊男人的举动可能被看成试图调情或者太过轻浮,丑男那就是骚扰了。我们自己从来也做不到公平啊。。不管是对己还是对他人。

豪情
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 豪情 » 2017-11-12 17:32

我觉得是女性习惯压抑自己的话, 希望有个借口放纵自己。所以越是性压抑的女性越有这样的幻想。
谁道闲情抛掷久?每到春来,惆怅还依旧。

Knowing
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-11-13 2:00

对于幻儿那个朋友,我推荐这个颇为有趣的Consent Simple as Tea 的小教育录像 (Copyright ©2015 Emmeline May and Blue Seat Studios)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8

基本意思是, 做爱前征求同意,如同请人喝茶. 你可以在对方表示不太想的时候仍然烧上开水,做好茶端到对方面前再三请对方别客气喝一杯. 但是如果你捏着对方的鼻子硬灌, 这是强奸. 如果对方说想喝,你做好了茶, 端上来对方又说不想喝了,这有点烦人,但是你也不能硬灌. 如果对方昏过去了,别自行做了茶灌下去. 如果对方说想喝, 喝了一半, 睡着了,你也不应该把剩下的茶灌下去. 还有,上礼拜六对方来你家喝了茶,不表示今天他也想喝茶.

注意飘和五十度灰都是女性写的小说,所以可以被归类为被强奸性幻想。

回到女性本身, 被强奸性幻想可耻么? 这说明你真的想被强奸么? 这是个非常经典的性教育问题. 答案也很标准. 有被强奸性幻想的女性不是极少数. 调查表明大约一半的直女和直男有过这种幻想. 这是普通的,正常的性幻想. (我觉得一半有点高. 但是如果调查选项是'有过'而不是'常常有'可以理解. )
https://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/rape ... -be-raped/ 但是, 幻想跟真实遇到强奸是完全不同的. 幻想和现实的最大区别是, 幻想中本人控制一切. 时间地点, 如何进行, 对方是谁, 本人完全感到安全. 而现实的强奸完全相反. 所以即使是常常有被强奸幻想的人, 很少会付诸行动, 真遇到的时候极少觉得享受.

从社会角度来看,我(没有数据支持的) 觉得霸道总裁文盛行跟女性社会地位低紧密相联. 强奸幻想中很常见的满足感之一'guilt avoidance' -- 享受性爱被视为肮脏轻浮, 被强奸, 不停抗拒能够缓解禁忌感 -- , 如小豪所说, 是跟社会压抑分不开的.

所以强奸幻想虽然是个落后的审美观 (好比有些旧式文人爱小脚), 如果有也没必要感到愧疚, 怪社会好了。有些女性有时存在这类幻想, 并不说明她们就活该被强奸,因为她们并不真的想被强奸。

另一个类似常见的性幻想是良家妇女做妓女的幻想。张爱玲曾精彩的评论过, 那是有钱有闲又缺乏性生活的阔太太的幻想, 这种女人要被卖到三等窑子里才知道苦处。 类似的妓女文学很多,所以大概读者不少。真去做妓女的人就很少了。见天打暴力游戏的男人也很多啊,入伍的男人有多少,被迫征兵上了战场还抑郁呢。
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Jun
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-13 15:51

Wow 又出来一个指控 Roy Moore 的女人,而且还是川普支持者。

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/us/p ... enate.html

I'll spare you the gruesome details. 就指出一下,当年 Moore 猥亵了女孩子之后,威胁她不许说出去,“我是地方检察官,就算说出去也没人相信你。” 好耳熟的套路。“我是大明星”,“我是大人物”,“我好有权力”,“我的朋友多”。即使现在也有很多群众不相信出来揭发的女人,正印证了这些大人物的威胁,说出来也没人相信你,他们都骂你是 liar。然而不信的群众的第一个理由就是,当时怎么没说出来呢?为什么之前没说出来呢?真是里外不是人,怎样做都错。
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2017-11-13 18:36

强奸性幻想很可能和性压抑有关。但五十度灰是霸道总裁文,霸道总裁文是关于权力的幻想而不是关于性。只有霸道总裁文,没有霸道屌丝文。得先是总裁才可以容忍他的霸道,而不是霸道了就变成总裁了。霸道屌丝现在叫做渣男。没有人对渣男有性幻想吧?(除非是母性大发作的拯救渣男,浪子回头幻想。那也是关于权力的--自己有拯救者的权力。)霸道总裁文里的性是用来统治霸道总裁的权力,让对方对自己欲罢不能,这是基于一个男权社会里的古老说法:“男人靠征服世界来征服女人,女人靠征服男人来征服世界。”

男性的权力幻想文就很直接的是财富、地位、权力、女人们!像黄易的伪武侠穿越文。女性的权力幻想在男权社会要隐蔽得多,似乎少见直接幻想财富地位的吧?我不知道现在的大女主网文有没有比从前更直接的权力幻想。从前都是幻想跟权力大能力强的男性发生性关系来委托权力幻想。
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豪情
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 豪情 » 2017-11-13 18:49

霸道总裁,霸道军阀, 有很多是虐文, 我觉得还是不是想征服。只是赤裸裸权力崇拜。
谁道闲情抛掷久?每到春来,惆怅还依旧。

Jun
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-13 19:21

同样是陌生人过来撩,英俊男人的举动可能被看成试图调情或者太过轻浮,丑男那就是骚扰了。
作为一个没看过飘也没看过五十度灰的人,这么一说我就明白了。

帅哥站那儿,女人不好意思上去扑倒,甚至不好意思承认自己有上去扑倒他的欲望,于是颠倒过来,幻想他对自己动手动脚。很典型的 projection 机制。

丑男么,并不能引起欲望,所以不会有这种 projection。有人幻想自己被丑男埋汰男强奸吗?

问题是为什么男人看见美女,至少能坦然承认自己的欲望,但女人看见帅哥就要拐弯抹角地表达欲望?这差别不是天生的。
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2017-11-13 19:32

我觉得飘还是很好看的。不能算是权力/性幻想文。
斯佳丽14岁因为得不到意中人的注意而赌气结婚,丈夫也年轻完全没有性经验,好像也是teenager,新婚之后马上丈夫上战场病死,很快成为寡妇。这时候的斯嘉丽基本没有什么性经验,第二次婚姻好像是跟年长鳏夫,再次成为寡妇时有没有20岁?最后她跟白瑞德分手时是26岁。性意识在这12年中间觉醒是很自然的。而且她第一次婚姻后很快丧母,又没有姐妹淘,又没有媒体网络,性经验完全靠自己摸索。
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Knowing
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-11-14 2:19

强奸幻想中本人会感到安全舒适, 崇拜权力构造’霸道‘总裁文的梦幻世界里,被patronize 的女主是安全的。霸道的总裁完全在作者掌控之下。你瞧那些虐文, 读者哀声一片,求得还是作者.
只要整个社会崇拜财富和权力, 这些文就会继续流行. 而不是重视陪伴, 平等, 理解,信任, 分享, 共鸣, 分担, 这些在伴侣关系中最能令人幸福的因素. 这对男性和女性都是悲剧:男性以为要获得女性的青睐必须有钱有权有事业, 愤怒的骂女性拜金, 不知道自己缺了什么.

飘也是我喜欢的小说。 每个作者都是时代的产品。简爱里的男主在那个时代已经是非常尊重女主,把女主当做intellectual equal 看待. 按现在的标准言行仍然是十分patronizing . 看得很堵心. 但那是夏洛特勃朗蒂能按生活原型(她在比利时学校教书时期的已婚校长)想象塑造出来的最理想的男性了。
当年 Moore 猥亵了女孩子之后,威胁她不许说出去,“我是地方检察官,就算说出去也没人相信你。” 好耳熟的套路。“我是大明星”,“我是大人物”,“我好有权力”,“我的朋友多”。即使现在也有很多群众不相信出来揭发的女人,正印证了这些大人物的威胁,说出来也没人相信你,他们都骂你是 liar。然而不信的群众的第一个理由就是,当时怎么没说出来呢?为什么之前没说出来呢?真是里外不是人,怎样做都错。
对啊,以前出来指控大人物, 不得不三省其身, 看自己是否完美无瑕, 否则必然被指控为荡妇撒谎者, 求名求财诬赖, 这一波指控跟以前不同, 很多女性同时站出来, 分担了焦点. 我感到很鼓舞. 瞧, 就像资本家面对一个工人有绝对的权力, 一旦工人组织成工会, 就能够跟资本家谈判. 只要社会的标准开始转变, 更多女性受到鼓舞可以站出来发声, 聚在一起就不在脆弱, 就会有更多受害者发声. 当年anita hill 在Clarence Thomas听证会发言让办公室性骚扰成为众所周知的概念, 进一步促进立法. 现在很可能又是一个新阶段的开始.
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唐唐的郁金香
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 唐唐的郁金香 » 2017-11-14 8:37

Knowing, Jun和笑嘻嘻的发言很解惑。

所以“权力是最好的春药”,男女都适用,表现形式不同,但为什么会不同是另外一个问题。

Consent Simple as Tea的录像以前看过,打算到时候给孩子看。
Knowing wrote:飘也是我喜欢的小说。 每个作者都是时代的产品。简爱里的男主在那个时代已经是非常尊重女主,把女主当做intellectual equal 看待. 按现在的标准言行仍然是十分patronizing . 看得很堵心. 但那是夏洛特勃朗蒂能按生活原型(她在比利时学校教书时期的已婚校长)想象塑造出来的最理想的男性了。
伍尔夫在A Room of One's Own里说,今天(1929年)的我们(women)都是inheritors,今天的女性所享有的权利都是前人栽树、所获得的成果是前人铺路的结果。平权是一点点向前推进的。她的话一点都不过时。

和美国朋友有一段对话,她是典型的白人military wife,跟着老公在日本住过很长一段时间,自称conservative feminist,认为"The war of gender equality in America has been fought and won"(原话)。最近出的这一大波性侵性骚扰丑闻,非常之70s style,不用我提醒,她自己叹气说美国性别平权之斗争并没有完结。
“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "... But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien

幻儿
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 幻儿 » 2017-11-14 11:00

我非常喜欢飘!小时候不太懂,喜欢的是斯嘉丽的灵动聪慧美貌,以及瑞德的玩世不恭与深情。
前两年再看,发现飘里面对人心理的描摹非常精准,尤其是斯嘉丽和瑞德之间的一而再再而三的误会和错过,那些误会并不是小白文里人为故意制造的,而是由于两人的性格和经历以及他们之间的关系的那种无可奈何,极其真实,让我心碎。

比如说那段强奸戏以及两人之后的反应。对于斯嘉丽来说,她觉得自己美貌聪明,除了卫希礼,在任何其他的男女关系中,她都一定是占上风的,男人都同小狗一样摇着尾巴哄她开心。在与瑞德的关系中,她感到自己并没有占到明显的上风,这让她觉得不安,有时候甚至愤怒(你竟然敢不臣服于我的美貌!)。但在强奸之后,她早上醒来觉得心满意足神清气爽,一是肉体上的性觉醒,二是精神上她觉得瑞德竟然这么想要她,不顾南方绅士必须遵守的对女性的礼貌尊重,不顾法律,就那么强迫了她!啊他多么爱我呀!我才是占上风那个人!好吧既然他这么爱我,我就也勉为其难对他好一点好了,其实他也蛮不错的。。。在斯嘉丽看来这可以是两人关系的转折点 -- 向好的方向。然而瑞德是南方绅士,他羞愧于自己的暴行,无法面对斯嘉丽,不但远远避走,而且用冷漠做掩饰。两个人就此错过这个和好的机会!唉唉唉。。。

Jun
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-15 17:55

今天在新鲜空气上听见访问两个纽约时报记者,她们爆出了 Harvey Weinstein, Louis CK, 川普(部分)的丑闻。有些细节非常 chilling,包括帮 Weinstein 事先拉皮条事后掩盖/吓唬受害者的庞大的狗腿团,以及整个社会的系统机器倒向权力打压受害者。相当恐怖。
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豪情
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 豪情 » 2017-11-15 23:21

Under the current tax code, many payouts and legal fees resulting from these types of cases can be written off as business expenses.
Under the new proposal, "no deduction is allowed for any settlement, payout, or attorney fees related to sexual harassment or sexual abuse if such payments are subject to a nondisclosure agreement."
A similar amendment was introduced to the House version of the bill by Colorado Republican Rep. Ken Buck, who said in a press release that the modification is meant to eliminate "the business expense deduction for hush money associated with sexual assault and sexual harassment cases."
这个太无耻了。
谁道闲情抛掷久?每到春来,惆怅还依旧。

幻儿
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 幻儿 » 2017-11-16 10:00

民主党现在到底谁是领袖啊?下届总统候选人是谁?
仿佛之前Joe Biden呼声很高,最近他又在出席活动。我本来觉得他也可以,可是他是出了名的handsy,喜欢动手动脚,他要是一旦竞选总统,肯定有无数个女的出来指控他。

Knowing
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-11-16 10:16

民主党需要培养一批新人。
今天我在听new yorker political scene 十年周年节目. 里面说到奥巴马08年当选后, 没重视党的基础建设, 10 年和14年民主党失去大量基层洲际席位, 直接恶果有两个: GERRYMANDERING 盛行众议院内民主党颓势难挽; 民主党无法补充替补席后备力量. 奥巴马显然现在也感到后悔,离职后默默在做这些. 川皇上位也给了很多年轻人,妇女,少数族裔,LGBT 重重一击, 妇女参政大为增加. 维吉尼亚地方选举大批民主党初次参选的新人击败共和党老人, 就是很好的兆头.
HRC也在做类似的事. 鼓励多样化的新人参政. What Happened? 最后有讲到 Onward Together 的一些举措.
https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/polit ... ical-scene

uh. Al Franken 被指控了. 我很郁闷.我还挺喜欢他的.
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幻儿
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 幻儿 » 2017-11-16 11:33

Knowing wrote:uh. Al Franken 被指控了. 我很郁闷.我还挺喜欢他的.
这回民主党很被动。如果Roy Moore需要退选,那Al Franken需要辞职吗?
其实民主党对于Moore没怎么出声,都是共和党establishment要他退选.

Knowing
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-11-16 11:55

如果没有更多人指控,也许不会吧。
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Jun
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-16 12:00

Moore 搞的是未成年人,性质不同。再说确实主要是共和党内斗争。
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2017-11-16 12:03

原教旨主义为什么支持trump和Moore?
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Jun
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-16 15:36

笑嘻嘻 wrote:原教旨主义为什么支持trump和Moore?
啧啧笑嘻嘻这问题太大了,得找个资深的历史学兼政治学教授来解释才行。

原因很多,我就提一条,女孩子要从小就训练成乖乖好老婆,这是原教旨主义圈子里的理想。大家不要混淆了开明蓝州的教会与深红州教会,名义上也许连教派都一样,但是实质上根本两样。下面这条博客报道不是应景的文章而是去年的,我早说了,在南方,童(女)婚是很“正常”的被社会接受的做法,这里面提供了理论基础:
https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016 ... daughters/
Vauhn Ohlman, who runs a site called Let Them Marry, is facilitating a family camp in Wichita Kansas this November, titled “Get Them Married Retreat”. The purpose of the camp? As stated on their website, “The Get Them Married Retreat is a 3-day retreat designed to bring together like-minded families (and their unmarried young men and women) who are committed to young, fruitful marriage …our major focus and priority will be bringing together unmarried young people and their families so they can intentionally network together with a goal of arriving at God-glorifying marriages.”
We on our site use the word ‘betrothal’ to refer to the entire set of principles, which differ from those of courtship and dating, which are taught by Scriptures for the path to marriage and several related subjects. These include: A) The sufficiency of Scripture for the path to marriage
B) The authority of the father over the marriage of their virgin children
C) The continuing authority of the father after marriage
D) The importance of the betrothal covenant versus:
E) The problematic nature of the quasi-covenants of dating, courting, or engagement
F) The importance of young, fruitful marriages
G) That a ‘bad’ marriage is to be preferred over no marriage
H) That a couple is not supposed to ‘fall in love’ before they are in covenant; they are to be brothers and sisters to each other
I) That marriage is ordained for the prevention of fornication
J) That ‘unready’ people should marry
K) That early, fruitful marriage is normative
L) That the gift of being successfully celibate is very rare.
Roy Moore 喜欢泡小女孩,在他的粉丝眼里,这说明他是根正苗红的 God-fearing Christian。
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dropby
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by dropby » 2017-11-16 15:54

我本来对教会不反感,还很羡慕信仰真诚的基督徒,结果那天有个当爸爸的在育儿群里引用圣经推荐大家教孩子,还是女孩子,该打就打。我恶心坏了也气坏了,忍不住马上跳出来了。我觉得这边的教义就和中国的马列主义一样,都是所谓信的人使劲往里塞私货,根本不能深究他们信的究竟是什么。

Knowing
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-11-17 2:06

Jun wrote:今天在新鲜空气上听见访问两个纽约时报记者,她们爆出了 Harvey Weinstein, Louis CK, 川普(部分)的丑闻。有些细节非常 chilling,包括帮 Weinstein 事先拉皮条事后掩盖/吓唬受害者的庞大的狗腿团,以及整个社会的系统机器倒向权力打压受害者。相当恐怖。
我听完这个访问了。手段最丑恶的是Weinstein, 律师挖历史恐吓受害者达成封口协议的腔调并不陌生。某类律师不择手段面目丑恶咄咄逼人,我见过,也听说过。我认真怀疑美国整个法律系统比较messed up, 给好律师(thus 有钱雇好律师的富人和大企业) 太多杠杆. 其他方面没有比较,我只对EMPLOYMENT LAW 有比较亲身的接触, 英国雇工律师就跟我说过英美在这方面差别颇大, 尤其是不缺律师费的情况下, 美国同行常随便起诉, 明知不能赢只是拖住被告给他们增加压力和开销也好, 英国没法这么做, 会被法官和同行鄙视, 失去可信度, 在将来的正经案子里吃亏.
但是! 比较恐怖的是他还雇佣私人调查公司伪装成女权运动者去跟受害人交朋友见面, 偷偷录音对话备用, 想跟记者见面挖出记者手里的控诉者名单. 这些我前阵在纽约客的文章Weinstein的间谍队伍里看到. 这可不是一般的卑鄙无耻. 记者说幸好纽约时报的有严格的ethic 条例,作为老练的调查记者她们习惯了处理可疑的接触, 才没有上当.
令人鼓舞的是, 所有的行为都有后果, Weinstein多年用律师封受害人的嘴, 正是留下了一串长长的书面和财政证据, 积少成多, 正好说明控告并非空穴来风. 纽约时报严谨的due diligence, 为受害者们建造了一个坚实的平台, 不再是he says she says 的空口指控. 令更多受害者有勇气站出来. 二十五年前Anita Hill 孤身站在整个参议院听证委员会被质疑, 其他女性有同样指控却根本得不到机会发言. 现在不会重演了. 我鼓舞的想这其中, 女记者数量大大增加, 也有关系吧.
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2017-11-17 2:43

我的疑问很多,不只上面那个。美国(或者还包括加拿大)的主体基督教是福音派吧?这次大选后,广播里都讨论的是福音派对trump的明显支持率高于其他人群。那不是人数巨大?! :shock: 因为当只说原教旨主义的时候,我想当然地觉得人数不多。实际情况不是这样吗? :shock:
(这有一篇翻译的讲美国福音派与原教旨主义(文中翻译成基要派(估计是为了和伊斯兰原教旨主义的名字分开))的历史渊源:美国政治中的福音派与基要派——兼与伊斯兰原教旨主义的比较
大选结束后,小美之前推荐的“选美”公号出过一篇:【ta说】为什么福音派会这么铁杆地支持川普
所以难道美国基督教的大部分人都支持trump吗? :shock: :shock: 我还以为只有原教旨主义。毕竟我见到的华人信徒里trump的支持率非常高。

关于Roy Moore,他30多约会/性骚扰10几岁的少女。如果他当时结婚了,那他是通奸;如果他没结婚,显然他没有一个 young fruitful marriage. 而且他跟多名少女约会,这也不符合婚前不许fall in love,不许约会,更别提禁止婚前性行为了。还是说上面那些都是教育女孩子的。NPR采访支持他的福音派牧师,矢口否认那5名妇女的指控,说他不是那样的人。为什么他们对约会这么恐惧?约会了就不能保证孩子是谁的了?
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Knowing
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-11-17 3:23

你怎么能跟教徒们讲逻辑? 人家讲的是信仰,知道不?

这个民调太令我绝倒了。2011年, 30%白人福音派教徒认为政治家被揭露不道德私生活后还可以继续担任公职。 现在, 72%! 还是川皇了解他们,会说“我就是在第五大道上杀了人都没事”
https://www.npr.org/2016/10/23/49889083 ... moral-acts

Roy Moore 当时没结婚。 他攻击过的一个少女招待,跟他后来的妻子同龄, 上同一个中学. (相互不认识)他跟他老婆结婚的时候,他38, 老婆24, 已经离过一次婚带一个孩子.
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2017-11-17 11:29

好吧,我错了。2011年跟现在的区别是民主党当政。不过跟未成年少女发生性关系不只是不道德,是犯罪。相信福音派也知道,所以矢口否认。
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Jun
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-17 19:08

笑嘻嘻你不知道在 Evangelical 圈子里,领导层早就教育过信徒,希拉里克林顿是魔鬼的女儿,奥巴马是 antichrist。谁敢去选他们?这种圈子里的群众尤其顺从听话。民主党统统都是魔鬼派来的,在他们的教会里早就宣传至少二十年了。

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act ... port-trump

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... y-theories
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2017-11-17 22:54

我赶紧上网查了一下Evangelical 占美国人口的28.9%,大约91.76 million。其中75%在去年大选中选了trump,其中每月至少去教堂一次的77%选了Trump,8/10认为Trump总统做得很棒。我从前一直听的时候本来以为是个很极端的少数,我本来以为是Trump让美国倒退,而社会、历史总是会向前走。原来是Trump让我大开眼界,认识到自己仅仅了解很少部分的美国。换句话说Jun你上面列的对父权夫权的极度服从,在这种宗教社区凝聚性的系统中,在美国约小1/3的人口中畅通无阻。而我们天天听、看的媒体里从来听不见,我们的确生活在一个泡泡里。剩下的2/3人口因为各种看法观点,各有意见。只有白人福音派表现出了惊人的团结,观点一致,而他们有好几十米林的人口。
而且从这次选举人团制度的教育里,真是深刻理解了,美国各种问题里奴隶制的残余影响无所不在。

我现在真的担心,我们要看8年的trump。社会一定会最终向前走,只是可能得活得够长才享受得到。
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-19 9:30

我忽然想起一部纪录片 Jesus Camp 关于 Evangelical 教会教育儿童的,以及他们的政治势力。这是 2006年的片子,当时的总统 George W Bush 就是一个成年后改信此派的 born-again Christian. 布什八年里对于基督教原教旨主义的报道不少,要不然我也不能知道,但是奥巴马上台后大家都以为天下进步了就没再去看看。不象小布什,川普不是原教旨主义者,但是他非常知道怎样逗他们开心。
https://youtu.be/wiYFRmNuz9k

大西洋杂志这篇访谈也很有意思,关于 sex, religion, American politics.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... re/546089/
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-11-20 2:06

社会一定会最终向前走,只是可能得活得够长才享受得到。
享受不到不要紧, 争取为进步做贡献就够了.我们今天享受的权利,哪样儿也不是我自己奋斗来的啊. 妇女投票权奋斗了多少年? 就当我们在PAY OUR DUES。
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-20 15:59

刚开始听 Malcolm Gladwell 的 podcast, Revisionist History. 第一集 The Lady Vanishes,就是关于女性权力的话题以及一个被称为 moral licensing 的现象。说得略片面但是能引发深入的思考,也算值得一听:

http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/ ... y-vanishes
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-11-21 17:45

Charlie Rose 也被爆了。立刻被 CBS 炒了鱿鱼,他的 PBS 谈话节目恐怕也完了。

川皇出来支持 Roy Moore, 说“好过民主党当选议员”。还说,现在是女性的大好时代啊,辣末多人都出来控告被性攻击和性骚扰。
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-11-22 1:26

我得说,民主党自由派处理这种事的态度端正多了。查理玫瑰马上停播, NPR 的顶级新闻编辑被爆后马上开除。共和党和川皇呢? :vomit:
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2017-11-22 3:16

They can vote for Trump, we gonna change the world.
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-12-07 12:16

Al Franken 辞职了。一方面我觉得他应该辞职。另一方面真是无比郁闷。这么有效的一颗新星。
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by april » 2017-12-07 13:33

Knowing wrote:我得说,民主党自由派处理这种事的态度端正多了。查理玫瑰马上停播, NPR 的顶级新闻编辑被爆后马上开除。共和党和川皇呢? :vomit:
所以推上有人苦涩的说Franken不应该辞职应该改投共和党就不需要辞职了。
Franken自己的辞职宣告也没忘了刺一把自己必须辞职和川皇依然在位这个现实。。。
He looked like a small panther, and he moved like a patch of night.

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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by 幻儿 » 2017-12-07 15:53

Weinstein Effect持续发酵啊,本地文艺界大地震,Dallas Theater Center的New Play Development 总监Lee Trull被开除了。
Dallas Theater Center 去年获得Tony最佳地方剧院奖,这个Lee Trull 开发新剧目立下汗马功劳,正是春风得意,现在就爆出丑闻被开了。说他骚扰女演员,尤其他参与了一些未成年演员的培训工作,还手脚不干净。Dallas Theater Center一公布这件事,其他剧院/programs纷纷宣布跟他解约。

我有点奇怪,以前也有一些性骚扰案件,甚至去年就有Roger Ailes,也都只是独立事件。为啥Weinstein丑闻曝光有这么大影响呢?

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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-12-07 16:00

因为川皇没有受到惩罚,有很多积累的愤怒
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-12-12 0:35

I am really upset that one of my favorite journalists Ryan Lizza was fired by New Yorker ...due to sexual misconduct . Why do these men have to do this?
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-12-12 7:39

啊?Lizza 又干什么了? 真怕现在的清洗运动把进步男们的赶走了。
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Knowing » 2017-12-12 8:20

不知道他到底干了啥。有个女的对纽约客指控他。纽约客研究后认为 improper sexual conduct 开除了他。他叫冤说是respectful relationship with a woman I dated. 女方和律师反对他的说法. 但是女方要求匿名.
我很纠结. 一方面我信任纽约客. 另一方面我觉得这女的不肯站出来很可疑.难道也是未成年人? YUCK!
大扫荡扫到我喜欢的人的确比较郁闷. 不过他也可以为别的杂志写作. 被开除不是判死刑.
为啥还没人出来控诉Aaron Sorkins?
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Re: zz: Reflecting On One Very, Very Strange Year At Uber

Post by Jun » 2017-12-12 8:45

Aaron Sorkin 有这个名声吗?如果有,我一点也不奇怪。
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