[科学新闻]脏话=诚实

入得谷来,祸福自求。
Post Reply
Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

[科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by Jun » 2017-01-18 8:29

研究者发现说脏话多的人比较诚实:

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases ... 011617.php
Psychologists have learned that people who frequently curse are being more honest. Writing in the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science a team of researchers from the Netherlands, the UK, the USA and Hong Kong report that people who use profanity are less likely to be associated with lying and deception.
As dishonesty and profanity are both considered deviant they are often viewed as evidence of low moral standards. On the other hand, profanity can be positively associated with honesty. It is often used to express unfiltered feelings and sincerity.
In the first questionnaire 276 participants were asked to list their most commonly used and favourite swear words. They were also asked to rate their reasons for using these words and then took part in a lie test to determine whether they were being truthful or simply responding in the way they thought was socially acceptable. Those who wrote down a higher number of curse words were less likely to be lying.
此喵已死,有事烧纸

Knowing
Posts: 34487
Joined: 2003-11-22 20:37

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by Knowing » 2017-01-18 10:48

就是说嘴上没有把门的。。。
有事找我请发站内消息

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by Jun » 2017-01-18 11:22

或者说,培养有礼貌交际能力强的儿童就是鼓励他们的说谎技术。
此喵已死,有事烧纸

seren
Posts: 81
Joined: 2016-02-18 12:01

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by seren » 2017-01-18 21:50

"and then took part in a lie test to determine whether they were being truthful or simply responding in the way they thought was socially acceptable"
没具体看到methods,但这句话suggest只是谎言里特定的一种(说符合social norm的话)?不用脏话的人对social norm的认同感大概比较强,更倾向于说这类谎话也不奇怪。如果是另外的谎言,譬如为了自己的利益,或者与social无关的逃避惩罚之类的谎话,就不知道有没有关系了

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by Jun » 2017-01-18 23:39

其实我们通常说的“嘴上把门”在本质上就是抑制自己的感情反应甚至表现出相反的信息,例如内心大骂对方狗屁不通但表面上客客气气,这个机制应该跟说谎有很大的 overlap. 换言之,学习说谎的过程未必不是 social skills 的练习,进一步地还要分辨白谎与黑谎。这都是一路下来的而不是分割得一清二楚,好像说谎与社会技能无关似的。
此喵已死,有事烧纸

seren
Posts: 81
Joined: 2016-02-18 12:01

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by seren » 2017-01-19 14:47

说谎当然和social skills有关了,实际上说谎早晚还是小孩social方面发育的一个标杆——发育得好的小孩说谎早。但我好奇的是,虽然说谎这件事情的发育根源是在social里面,大多数谎言也和日常社交相关,但发展到了成年人世界里五光十色各种各样的谎言,不同类的调动的大脑功能也不一样,和说脏话这件事情的关系强弱也不见得就一样。譬如我suspect非常elaborate的谎言,因为要调动大脑各种高级功能,和说脏话关系也许就不大。

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by Jun » 2017-01-19 14:53

seren wrote:譬如我suspect非常elaborate的谎言,因为要调动大脑各种高级功能,和说脏话关系也许就不大。
等等,说脏话的人就是缺乏说谎的技能,越是 elaborate 的谎言,越是不适合出口成脏的同学们。这跟研究的结论是一致的。

所以也许教训是可以多交点粗野的朋友,至少他们信得过。 :party005:
此喵已死,有事烧纸

笑嘻嘻
Posts: 23308
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:00

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2017-01-19 14:57

你是说trump?
云浆未饮结成冰

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by Jun » 2017-01-19 15:01

Trump 既粗野又愚蠢,所以美国群众都特信任他。嗯。

他的谎言拙劣透了,拦不住 FBI 领导都撑他,铺天盖地的媒体替他传播拙劣的谎言。
此喵已死,有事烧纸

seren
Posts: 81
Joined: 2016-02-18 12:01

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by seren » 2017-01-19 15:57

Jun wrote:
seren wrote:譬如我suspect非常elaborate的谎言,因为要调动大脑各种高级功能,和说脏话关系也许就不大。
等等,说脏话的人就是缺乏说谎的技能,越是 elaborate 的谎言,越是不适合出口成脏的同学们。这跟研究的结论是一致的。

所以也许教训是可以多交点粗野的朋友,至少他们信得过。 :party005:
You are right。。。所以简单的符合social norm的谎言说脏话的人没兴趣讲,复杂的谎言他们也讲不来(education could be a confounder here though),反正最后讲脏话的人不容易撒谎……
也许教训是让自己变粗野一点大家会更信得过我。。。

dropby
Posts: 10921
Joined: 2003-11-24 12:23

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by dropby » 2017-01-20 6:58

我被你们搞糊涂了。川普不是典型的又非常爱说脏话又非常爱撒谎的典型么?有这个例子在这里,我觉得这个研究完全不可信啊。

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by Jun » 2017-01-20 8:54

dropby wrote:我被你们搞糊涂了。川普不是典型的又非常爱说脏话又非常爱撒谎的典型么?有这个例子在这里,我觉得这个研究完全不可信啊。
个例吧。

当然一个小试验也不能说明什么。

我收回上面说的话!

不是没有可能,Trump 确实比不爱说脏话的人诚实。

我竟然自动接受了 Trump 比一般人更爱撒谎的观点,自踢一脚。
此喵已死,有事烧纸

笑嘻嘻
Posts: 23308
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:00

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2017-01-20 12:09

难道不是吗?“我从来没模仿过残疾人。”“我没见过他”“我没说过那话”“那都是假新闻!”“你不许说话,你们电视台尽播假新闻!”他说的谎比正常政客多得多。为了他,新闻界集团不知所措,专门为播就职典礼可以有fact check的播放选项。
云浆未饮结成冰

dropby
Posts: 10921
Joined: 2003-11-24 12:23

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by dropby » 2017-01-20 12:29

川普肯定比一般人更爱撒谎啊,而且完全不带脸红。

staryngt
Posts: 179
Joined: 2008-06-03 12:19

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by staryngt » 2017-01-20 12:37

说实话,我现在对很多打着大数据的旗号做出来的研究成果都半信半疑,尤其经过媒体解释的。很多人做数据分析都不是很严谨,报道时也不会讲分析时的假设了,结论的确定性…… 有时间我去找原始数据去看看。
"People don’t choose between things, they choose between descriptions of things" by kanhneman

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: [科学新闻]脏话=诚实

Post by Jun » 2017-01-20 13:05

笑嘻嘻 wrote:难道不是吗?“我从来没模仿过残疾人。”“我没见过他”“我没说过那话”“那都是假新闻!”“你不许说话,你们电视台尽播假新闻!”他说的谎比正常政客多得多。为了他,新闻界集团不知所措,专门为播就职典礼可以有fact check的播放选项。
Ah yes, but ...

说谎是一个很复杂的大脑活动,我们对于“谎言”的定义是非常简化的,甚至极其幼稚。我们一般只认得出儿童式的简单谎言,所以 Trump 的谎言特别明显,特别多;所以很多成年人对于孩子撒谎的现象感到惊奇与愤怒,因为他们认不出这是一种天然而正常的行为,自己每天都在做同样的事情。更加高明成熟的说谎机制在我们的意识中属于普通社会环境的“谎言”的定义之外,我们一般交换的是 socially acceptable and encouraged lies。大多数知识分子阶层的人不会象 Trump 那样撒幼稚的谎言,因为他们的说谎机制要成熟得多,复杂得多,subtle 得多,他们的谎言大多是连自己都意识不到的。例如,你衣服好漂亮,你女儿好聪明,我好羡慕你的新车,谢谢你的帮助,祝你新年快乐,我从来没搞过婚外恋,我永远不会离婚,我最爱我儿子可以为他挡枪子儿,"I am not a racist." 如此等等。We don't call them lies, but they are no different from "I didn't eat the candy."

http://liespotting.com/2010/06/10-resea ... your-mind/
Humans are lied to as many as 200 times a day.
Social psychologist Jerald Jellison of the University of Southern California published this figure in his 1977 book, “I’m Sorry, I Didn’t Mean To, and Other Lies We Love To Tell.” The hard-to-believe figure, which of course includes the many innocent “white lies” we hear each day, was given further credence in a 2002 study by Robert Feldman of the University of Massachusetts, who found that on average, people told two to three lies in a ten-minute conversation.
我就知道这么多,再多说就要露馅儿了。
此喵已死,有事烧纸

Post Reply