Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

入得谷来,祸福自求。
薇琪
Posts: 394
Joined: 2005-06-12 16:35

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by 薇琪 » 2016-01-04 22:56

老大你为啥这么不相信你家某人! :mrgreen:

话说我黑色孤儿最新一季还没看,天天也不知道在干啥。

Jun
Posts: 25519
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-01-05 13:09

Season 1 gag reel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kyBxqYVGy4

Season 1 Easter eggs:
http://www.usanetwork.com/mrrobot/timel ... aster-eggs

这里有个值得注意的蛋:本来没想把 Sharon Knowles 写死的,但是后来鼓捣出一条故事线,走到后面会有大发展。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

dropby
Posts: 10124
Joined: 2003-11-24 12:23

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by dropby » 2016-01-05 13:13

薇琪你不是时间都花在乐高摩天轮上了? :mrgreen:

我知道我天天在干啥,尽玩candy crush了。我现在看电视经常都是一边在平板上看一边在手机上刷游戏,三心二意的。所以经常没看进去。如果和某人一起在大屏幕上看才会比较专心。但是能和某人一起看大屏幕的时间太有限了。

薇琪
Posts: 394
Joined: 2005-06-12 16:35

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by 薇琪 » 2016-01-05 14:31

是啊没错!不过那就是今年,可能还搭上了除夕。之前在干嘛呢?噢,复习星战来着,但那也是去影院头天晚上熬夜赶工看完的。其它时间在干啥呢?居然一点没印象了! :let_me_die:

连黑客军团都是刚才午饭时才把最后十几分钟看完的!

Jun
Posts: 25519
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-01-05 23:42

第一次看第六集的结局其实让我蛮火大的,仿佛又是常见的男编剧对于女性角色的随意态度 --- 男主是打不死的小强而女性角色总是为他被轻易地牺牲掉了。但是这里面总是有种奇怪别扭的感觉,没法解释,例如为什么这条故事线要结束与第一季的半路上,跟整个黑客剧情有乜关联。直到我看到一个访谈才明白,Sam Esmail说这部剧的启发源头之一是 Arab Spring,我突然就开窍了:Shayla 线是一个缩影或预演,跟故事的长线是同一个主题和曲线。

考虑一下这条线是怎样开始的,Elliot 与 Shayla 发展出恋爱的萌芽,Shayla 遇到恶人麻烦但并非致命危险,Elliot 想动用自己的秘密武器来拯救她,但她警告他不要掺和。他还是掺和了,自以为是 Clarke Kent 呢,结果把 Shayla 害死了。这是他想救一个人的后果,从更大的故事线来看,他一直还要拯救全世界呢,后果岂不是糟糕一百倍?对照一下 Arab Spring 的后果吧,简直让人害怕得发抖,不能不承认最初闹革命的青年们是理想主义满怀热情的。The road to hell ...

另外还有一层含义:Elliot 和我们这些看多了超级英雄漫画的观众们都以为 the hero 可以各种扭转乾坤都不必付出代价,而现实是,大势早已注定,个人力量拗不过宿命。心理学中的 omnipotent fantasy 是此类故事的汽油,但总归只是饭特西而已。这也可以扩展到更大的范围。

这么一看 Shayla 还真没白死,这些看似莫名其妙前后不搭的侧线旁支其实都是与主题呼应的。

附:发现更多的精神分析的影子。在人物布局上非常对称: Elliot 有一个不健康的坏爸爸 Mr. Robot 和一个贼健康的好爸爸 Gideon;还有一个充满怨恨的坏妈妈(亲妈,我疑心她还活着在哪里)和一个特有爱心的好妈妈 Krista 。当然,亲爹亲妈是谁,每个人都没法挑选。We can't choose our parents. 这就呼应了第二集里的心理治疗戏:Elliot feels he is not in control and has no realistic choices. 所谓的选择都是一样的,McDonalds or Burger King, 没有选择即没有自由即没有 control. 但是心理治疗正是一个帮人看清世界上哪些是个人可以有得选,哪些是没得选的过程。目前 Elliot 对于这件事显然是一团混乱。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

simonsun
Posts: 2486
Joined: 2006-12-24 4:41

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by simonsun » 2016-01-10 20:59

得金球了哦
Violent delights.

Jun
Posts: 25519
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-01-10 22:08

Happy for Sam and Rami! :super:

有空来详细分析一下第四集里的梦。这是自从 Spellbound 以后看见的最符合精神分析学的人造 dream sequence, 里面充满了梦之逻辑与象征符号。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

huhututu
Posts: 26
Joined: 2013-12-29 20:27

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by huhututu » 2016-01-12 12:11

早就听说这剧好,特地找来看,看前几集感想和Jun完全一样,遂弃剧,看来应该再捡起来,谢谢推荐

Jun
Posts: 25519
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-01-14 11:43

忘记在哪里看到说,剧里虽然屏幕上的程序一行一行挺像样,但有些错误还是漏了出来。例如 Elliot 回到家,电脑屏幕都没锁。还有删除被 hack 的人的文件,光是 Delete 一下也不够啊。

说明 Sam Esmail 本质上并不是个电脑纳德。他关心的是人际互动的新模式。他在剧里提出的很多质疑,正巧是之前我也在想的问题,只不过我就是随便想想,但他都隐晦地写到剧本里去了。他自己说过,最恨 Facebook.

通过网络 social media 建立的人际关系是一种很奇怪的社会关系,你认识我吗?我认识你吗?我们又从中得到了什么?尤其是内向的,neurotic 的人,如此方便隐藏自己的途径能给我们营造一个安全无痛的环境,如 morphine addiction,但这是用什么代价换来的呢?

---------------

One thing that has been troubling me is how much living vicariously through an online proxy can be easily confused with living actually. 最近想去印度玩,家属拼命反对,说你上 Google Earth 去看一圈就好了嘛,什么古迹都不缺,没有任何吃坏肚子感染细菌的危险,有什么差别。虽然我直觉这个理论有问题,但是实际上这样的生活方式早已在电脑/互联网之前就开始了,而且继续在扩大。所有不方便,有风险,不舒适,要付出,有代价的活动,最终都可以直接在脑子里发生而绕过麻烦的肉体。 The brain often doesn't quite know the difference. I'm worried (but not yet paranoid). Maybe this will be the way we all live.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

mirrorflower
Posts: 1258
Joined: 2008-11-04 17:26

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by mirrorflower » 2016-01-15 14:24

我觉得没有这么单向和可怕。

就我自己的经历来说,人不在家乡,本身也比较内向,online social的确满足了我很多social needs,尤其是因为可以随时plug off,而且一开始匿名,所以感觉比较安全。

但是同时我也意识到,我从online social中也学到很多不同视野,很多看问题的不同角度——这中间的经过并不都是愉快的,但是因为有矛盾的时候可以plug off而不是不得不强忍厌恶去面对或者加剧,其实给人冷静的时间。我觉得现在我看问题比以前open和mellow很多(当然这也可能起码部分是因为年纪大了),而且觉得整个世界比以前开阔(因为从不同人的经历中意识到人生的道路有很多条,而不是我身边的人的那么几条)。另外从别人闹矛盾,沟通或不沟通之中,我觉得我有学到一些deal with conflicts的方法。

那么如果我没有这么多online social,是不是我就会有更多的offline social,从而其实这些benefits也会获得,或者获得的更多呢?I don't know. 生活也不可能回头。但我的确不觉得online social只有负面效果,可能就跟各种addiction一样,当你明知有害还不能停止(导致harm的那部分行为)的时候,那的确是比较负面的时候。

gone girl里面不是提到旅游吗?说现在各种经历都是二手的,而且现实的经历可能都比不上你看到的读到的——(比如说你去拍的实地照片永远比不上有人天时地利人和都赶上的时候拍的绝妙一张),但我觉得从另一个角度来说,如果不是看到了读到了什么,我也许永远不知道世界上有这么一个地方,更不要说动心到实际上去了。只要manage好expectations,我觉得大多时候事先看到这些信息对我来说还是正面意义居多。
"A wealth of information creates a poverty of attention."

Jun
Posts: 25519
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-01-16 17:43

我并不是认为 Internet, online social media 是 evil ,那岂不是跟 FSociety 的幼稚立场一样极端了。这些技术当然是给生活带来极大的方便和愉悦,才会如此迅速地风靡全世界,突飞猛进地改变人类的生活方式。打个比方,农业科技的进步导致世界粮食产量猛增,饥荒的危险越来越少,这是好事吗?当然是。但是,不等于这种进步没有副作用。人的天然结构在丰收的环境下体现出不适应而令许多人患上糖尿病,心血管疾病,这也是科技进步的后果之一。而人脑的结构在互联网的环境下体现出不适应而分不清虚幻与真实的差别,prefer 廉价省力的小快感 (new email alert!) 和百万年自然选择出来的复杂而真实的 reward (跟人直接交往带来的混合交织的感情)。环境的巨变带来的 unintended consequences, 我担心的倒不是社会或未来,而是在自己身上觉察到的日益增加的惰性和消减的动力。

看见金球奖之后的报道, Rami Malek 说带他娘去参加颁奖仪式,没想到老妈是 Jon Hamm 的迷妹,还说 Jon Hamm 得奖 “该!”

Image
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

mirrorflower
Posts: 1258
Joined: 2008-11-04 17:26

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by mirrorflower » 2016-01-16 21:50

Jun wrote:我并不是认为 Internet, online social media 是 evil ,那岂不是跟 FSociety 的幼稚立场一样极端了。这些技术当然是给生活带来极大的方便和愉悦,才会如此迅速地风靡全世界,突飞猛进地改变人类的生活方式。打个比方,农业科技的进步导致世界粮食产量猛增,饥荒的危险越来越少,这是好事吗?当然是。但是,不等于这种进步没有副作用。人的天然结构在丰收的环境下体现出不适应而令许多人患上糖尿病,心血管疾病,这也是科技进步的后果之一。而人脑的结构在互联网的环境下体现出不适应而分不清虚幻与真实的差别,prefer 廉价省力的小快感 (new email alert!) 和百万年自然选择出来的复杂而真实的 reward (跟人直接交往带来的混合交织的感情)。环境的巨变带来的 unintended consequences, 我担心的倒不是社会或未来,而是在自己身上觉察到的日益增加的惰性和消减的动力。
有意思。

我恰巧感觉相反,我觉得作为一个socially略微awkward且比较被动的人来说,我从online social上恰恰收获的是增加的社交的动力——意识到别人并非那么不可接近,不同的人在不同的时候可能会在某些问题上交叉——这个事情令我对和真实的人社交的障碍(barriers)反而降低了,而且另外各种online conflicts的“旁观”后我比较能够轻易地解释(explain away)真人社交中的不愉快,反而觉得压力变小。

也许这跟人的起点关系比较大,沉思。比如本来在农业社会就能吃饱饭的人/基因,到了现在得糖尿病风险增加;本来吃不饱/存不住糖的人/基因,反而还处在收益大过副作用的阶段。

出去玩这个事也是一样。我不属于那种说走就走,对什么地方一无所知就敢跑过去看看的人,那么有很多信息告诉我那里基本安全,大概可看的东西基本有什么,反而是一个增加动力的事。当然这个事的前提是,我对于自己亲自去某地方还是有热情有动力,并不满足于看到极其优美的文字描述/照片/视频。这是否和成长过程中没有完全沉浸在无数的电子信息中有关,我也不清楚。新一代从小在各种电子信息海洋中成长起来的孩子的兴趣会在哪儿,我也很好奇。
"A wealth of information creates a poverty of attention."

Jun
Posts: 25519
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-01-29 16:42

离开 Mr. Robot 一段距离之后,我觉得对于 Tyrell Wellick 的问题有一个猜想/解释:

最让我不解的部分,是他的几次失败。这是 Sam Esmail 剧本里颠覆观众期望的重点之一。很明显他是个 psychopath,他代表的是 Corporate America 里面野心勃勃,冷血自私,不择手段的部分,令人意外的是他的手段都失败了,并没有象其他文艺作品那样把心狠手辣的大亨写得威风八面,一路扯顺风船。他的失败主要在这几件事上:

1) 自荐顶替 CTO,上头见也不要见他。
2) 打破规矩要雇 Elliot 为手下,被拒绝。
3) 勾引竞争对手的老婆 Sharon Knowles,没看懂对方的信号而错过机会。
4) Sharon 恼羞成怒把勾引事件告诉丈夫,丈夫羞辱 Tyrell,进一步断了后路。
5) 再次勾引 Sharon 成功,却失手掐死她。
6) Very poor handling of the police detectives. 靠老婆暂时解围。
7) Joanna 追忆之前送掉的孩子,他没有反应。

这一切导致了他最后的一击:通过 Elliot 的 FSociety 对于公司进行报复。所以我相信他一定是参与了黑客计划的执行,与 Mr. Robot 合作把 Evil Corp 搞垮。第五集在 Steel Mountain 里面他跟 Elliot 有几句带有预兆性的对话:他说,我知道你搞了什么鬼,你不就是为了替你爹报仇吗?Revenge. How ordinary.(但是他以后也会被复仇动机驱使,这里是 irony。)此外 Elliot 在独白里藏了一句,"Am I his malware?" 这句我来回看了几遍没搞明白所指,猜想意思是,他对于 Evil Corp 的复仇(第一次黑客破坏)在 Tyrell 的脑子里种下了这个念头,在一系列失败之后,终于引他走上了同样的道路。所以说 Elliot is Tyrell's malware.

OK,最重要的解读来了。为什么 Tyrell 这么不择手段却屡战屡败,不是说 psychopaths 在大公司高层里特别普遍么?我想这是对于 psychopaths 的细腻分类。要变成成功人士,光是 psychopath 还不够,需要一定的读心能力和个人魅力,象 Tyrell 这种赤裸裸不择手段的人是不行的。他有一些致命弱点,例如看不懂别人的 social cue,例如 Sharon 回应他的勾引,他却理解错误;他对于 Elliot 的解读也错了,不明白为什么会被拒绝。以及 impulse control,例如发脾气解雇手下,之后发展为失手掐死 Sharon,all very childish and impuslive。或许 Sam Esmail 研究过/直接认识某个不成功的 psychopath 而想描写一下为什么大多数 psychopaths 在社会里不成功甚至蹲监狱。在某些方面,psychopaths 或许跟自闭的纳德们有点象,对于别人的感情状态解读困难,导致人际关系障碍。成功的 psychopaths 如大老板 CEO,仍然需要一定的社交本能和自我控制的能力。考虑到 Esmail 对于心理学的了解程度,描述一个失败的 psychopath 是完全可能的。

但是对于 Joanna 我完全放弃,完全找不到坐标系,只能等第二季提供更多讯息。我觉得她一定不是 psychopath,也不是自闭,而是有极其强烈的感情。目前只能隐隐看到一点内涵和动机:她的 masochist 倾向,可能跟之前送掉婴儿带来的羞耻与自我仇恨有关联。再多没了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

simonsun
Posts: 2486
Joined: 2006-12-24 4:41

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by simonsun » 2016-02-07 23:51

今天第一次看Blade Runner,发现里边的机器人公司叫Tyrell Corporation。不知道有没有关联。
Violent delights.

Jun
Posts: 25519
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-02-08 20:34

simonsun wrote:今天第一次看Blade Runner,发现里边的机器人公司叫Tyrell Corporation。不知道有没有关联。
很巧,我昨天在看 Ghost in a Shell,非常 Blade Runner 的气氛。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

simonsun
Posts: 2486
Joined: 2006-12-24 4:41

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by simonsun » 2016-05-17 16:13

Violent delights.

Jun
Posts: 25519
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-05-17 17:14

simonsun wrote:crazier and crazier :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc-AsN7d1wg
OMG Freak out!!!!!!!! :dog001:


喘口气上来,啊,Joanna!!! 她有很多镜头。跟她一起在车里的那个帅哥好象是她的新欢。 :rabbit001:

我觉得 Tyrell Wellick 多半死掉了,回不来了。

Angela 呆滞地说,I will pursue my dream no matter what. 不知为什么感觉特别讽刺 The American Dream.

摄影的风格越来越迷幻了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
Posts: 25519
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-05-25 16:24

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/ ... bank-heist

在巴拿马文件之前,这个人偷下了瑞士银行 HBSC 的秘密账户资料,简直比 Mr Robot 还神奇。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

Jun
Posts: 25519
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-09 16:22

下星期三就要开播第二季啦,第一天会播出两集。据看过头两集的评论专栏作者们说 ... 秘密仍是秘密,没解释 Tyrell Wellick 跑到哪里去了,也没解释白玫瑰的秘密。Oh well. 啊好期待!I still think Tyrell Wellick is dead.

我觉得这个剧好应景。一般关于闹革命的故事,讲到革命成功,打倒旧世界,胜利了,剧终!Everyone lives happily after. 但 Sam Esmail 想说的故事,闹革命并非重点,也不是解决问题,带来社会进步的答案。虽然你很愤怒很不平,但象个小孩子一样满地打滚又哭又闹乱砸东西,最后剩下的不过是满地玻璃渣而已。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-11 7:41

孙同学进错了贴子。

昨晚九点 Mr. Robot 突然放出第一集,但是一个半钟头之后就拿下来。啧啧,这 stunt 做的,太神了。

九点时我随手上了下 twitter,看见了公告 --- 甚至不是因为我跟 Mr. Robot 的推,而是因为我最近 google 过,机器就很体贴地把广告发给我了。于是我就把第一集看了。

Elliot 搬到他娘家里去住了,努力戒网。他娘还是跟以前一样 vicious --- 我觉得把她写得有点太脸谱化了。同时他还在去看好妈妈 Krista。其实我觉得这样的戒网生活也不错 ... Darlene 还在继续对 Evil Corp 搞破坏,这样下去过不了多久她就要被 FBI 抓了。节奏甚慢,跟 Shonda Rhimes 不能比,但是好有气氛和个性。Johanna Wellick 尚未出现,好期待。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by mirrorflower » 2016-07-11 12:25

Jun wrote: Elliot 搬到他娘家里去住了,努力戒网。
感觉好喜感 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
"A wealth of information creates a poverty of attention."

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-11 16:56

第一集有不少墨墨黑的幽默。例如故意拉出 Fight Club 里的典故,让 Mr. Robot 拿枪指 Elliot 的头。E Corp 的 CFO 住的 smart house 忽然发疯了,家电纷纷闹鬼,这太讽刺现实了。Elliot 每天跟发小吃早饭,发小最近才发现 Seinfeld 剧集,大惊小怪地赞叹不已。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by simonsun » 2016-07-11 23:07

不仅没看到而且还被你剧透 :mad2:
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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-13 22:05

Oh my god! They killed ... ! Bastards! :mad2:

Craig Robinson 特别逗,老是让我联想到 Brooklyn 99 里面那个偷车大盗。

I need to rewatch the episodes.
Last edited by Jun on 2016-07-13 22:14, edited 1 time in total.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by tiffany » 2016-07-13 22:07

那个跟jake特兄弟的胖子?
有酒有酒 闲饮东窗

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-13 22:11

就是那个每次都跑掉的 Pontiac Bandit. :mrgreen:
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by tiffany » 2016-07-13 23:03

Jake 一看见他就跟看见亲人似的,逗死我了
有酒有酒 闲饮东窗

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-14 20:49

看到一个粉丝猜想,认为 Elliot 目前被关在监狱或疯人院里,他目前的生活完全是幻想。我越想越觉得有说服力,大多数细节吻合,只有一两点不太吻合,例如为什么他还能继续看 Krista ,至少那段戏不像是想象出来的。但是,剧集不能把他关一季而与其他“现实”人物一直隔绝什么事都不干,所以我很怀疑这个秘密,如果是真的,会尽快揭穿。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by simonsun » 2016-07-16 19:11

这头两集神叨叨的,剪得忒碎。大约是在续第一季的尾巴,好多故事线每个都只说了一点,不够抓人。
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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-16 21:58

第一季就很 meandering . 前七集根本看不出走向。你不觉得 Meryl Streep 的女儿演的 FBI agent 也很神神叨叨吗?感觉也是个很有故事的人物。

在 IMDB 上,Leon 只有四集,Ray 只有三集,所以我估计 Elliot 在第四集时就会离开他娘的家,要么是写实地离开,要么是离开这个幻觉。总之不会一直呆一季。而 Tyrrell 写着每一集都会出现,那就是没死的意思了?
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-20 21:11

Ray 不是好人,我的预感被证实了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-23 14:25

Sam Esmail 自己承认,Tyrell 名字是致敬 Bladerunner 里面的 Tyrell Corporation. (Ari Shapiro 说的,他最近采访了 Esmail。)

Angela 被公司头头 Price 邀请吃饭那一段让我汗毛倒竖,好有 Roger Ailes 和手下女员工的感觉。还有她机械地给自己洗脑,“我很自信,我该有钱,我很能干。” 这太讽刺现实了,绝不是瞎编出来的。有不少 megachurch 里成天推销的就是这一套,信上帝就会发财,发财就是侍奉主上天堂,非常流行。还有在美国一直很流行的 motivational speakers / seminars 这个工业,推销成功发财术,从退休的 George W Bush 到 Oprah 的好友,贩卖 The Secret 理论者,很发财,信徒众,挺可怕的。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by simonsun » 2016-07-23 15:19

simonsun wrote:今天第一次看Blade Runner,发现里边的机器人公司叫Tyrell Corporation。不知道有没有关联。
Jun wrote:Sam Esmail 自己承认,Tyrell 名字是致敬 Bladerunner 里面的 Tyrell Corporation. (Ari Shapiro 说的,他最近采访了 Esmail。)
猜对了额! :mrgreen:
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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-27 20:44

OMG, BD Wong is back! 捶地。看得好晕。

I don't understand anything. What's going on?

之前的担心实现了,Sam Email 自己掌握全剧制作之后变得过分 self indulgent. This mumble jumble getting really old.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by simonsun » 2016-07-27 22:19

Jun wrote:之前的担心实现了,Sam Email 自己掌握全剧制作之后变得过分 self indulgent. This mumble jumble getting really old.
我还没看第四集哈。第三集里几个人物刻画的片段还是很好的。

前三集是Mr.Robot和Elliot完全对立。同样的几句话啰啰嗦嗦一毛一样说了三集,看得心烦。
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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-28 7:33

第四集你还没看我就不剧透了,结尾总算有点进展。

故事从黑客进化到大阴谋了,革命成功之后的混乱状态让我看得一头雾水。But Elliot has not busted out of the mental institution.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-07-30 13:32

Episode 4, or ep2.2 by the show's own count, is messing with my head. I can't sort out the order of things.

So, what do we know by now? Romero is killed. Near his body, his cell phone was taken apart. I think we can assume that his SIM card has been taken, and all his calls have been traced. Elliot and Darlene may have been exposed to whoever killed him.

Before Romero was killed, he was researching on a government surveillance program called Operation Berenstain. He downloaded an FBI roster of agents who were in the program. It's unknown whether Dom DiPierro is in this Berenstain program, but her name is on Romero's printouts. Dom has mentioned to the policeman at the crime scene that all the agents who interviewed Gideon Goddard (also killed) were on the printouts. Therefore, we can infer that Operation Berenstain is in some way connected to the 5/9 hack or its investigation.

We know that Romero himself did not execute the 5/9 hack --- it was Mr. Robot and Tyrell Wellick. So what had led Romero to FBI's Berenstain? Clearly that's why he was killed.

In the episode, White Rose (ie, Dark Army) was given a copy of FBI's internal memo (either from a mole or from hacking the agency), presumably about the 5/9 hack investigation. Subsequently, Cisco told Darlene that Dark Army suspects that her group may have become FBI informants. One can therefore deduce that White Rose/Dark Army is not working with the FBI. Also, Romero was NOT killed by the Dark Army, or they would have known that Darlene and co were not FBI informants.

So there is another force operating behind the scenes, clearly not Dark Army or E Corp, since these two are working together. FBI? Operation Berenstain? If yes, then Dom must not be in the operation, because she did not know about Romero. Then her connection to Berenstain is through the 5/9 hack investigation.

Another question: Who is behind Gideon Goddard's murder? Several possibilities:
1) Random act as it appears.
2) Dark Army to prevent him from exposing Elliot to FBI. Possible, because they knew Gideon was suspecting Elliot back in Season 1.
3) Operation Berenstain? Why? Would the 5/9 hacking investigation threaten to expose it?

The two deaths seem to strongly suggest that Operation Berenstain and the 5/9 hack are connected, but to date both Elliot/Mr. Robot and Dom DiPierro seem to be unaware of the former.

Funny enough, the name Berenstain is involved in a bizarre parallel-universe conspiracy theory:
http://www.avclub.com/article/how-you-s ... ara-223615

So perhaps Tyrell Wellick is being held by Berenstain in a parallel universe.

------------------------------

A separate question: Why are we seeing a long and apparently static arc of the Elliot-Mr. Robot struggle in the first 4 episodes that seems to go nowhere? Of course, the simplest and most obvious answer is Sam Esmail's artistic self indulgence. If this is not the true answer, there are a couple of other possibilities:

1) A narrative challenge similar to Daenerys Targaryen's stay in Essos. She cannot sail for Westeros in Book 3, when she could have, because other events in Westeros (eg, Cersei burning down King's Landing) require more time to occur before her arrival. Elliot is needed to do something after some other things unfold. So he has to remain "sequestered" for the first 4 or 5 episodes.

2) The annoyingly mundane routine in Elliot's insanity arc serves as a red herring to distract us from paying attention to important clues in other scenes involving Darlene (connected to Dark Army) and Angela (connected to E Corp and Price) and Joanna Wellick (connected to Tyrell and E Corp).

Note that 1) and 2) are not mutually exclusive, and both may be true.

-----------------------------

Joanna's scene with the bartender about Madrid kind of blew my mind. What does she mean? It's unlikely anything I have seen or read or heard. It's so ... dope. I feel like it's about money, particularly Joanna's psychological relationship with money, but we don't know what that is. Everything related to Joanna is very mind tickling.

Her paying off Kareem the parking attendant suggests that she has discovered something in the car or she was seen driving and/or parking Tyrell's car during those 3 days. I can derive nothing more beyond this.

-----------------------------

The E Corp (Philip Price)-Dark Army (White Rose)-Angela Moss section.

Angela is probably correct in identifying E Corp's intention to remove the requirement that a third party will monitor their chemical plant in Washington Township. It's of unknown but critical importance. We don't know what secret is hidden in that plant. The plant is also key to E Corp and Dark Army's alliance, as suggested by the phone call. Dark Army's interest may or may not converge with E Corp. This subplot explains: 1) why Dark Army helped FSociety hack E Corp and 2) why Angela was hired by E Corp. Everything that seems odd or awkward plotting in season 1 can be logical. The plotting is in fact very reasonable and meticulous, as we have seen.

Curiously, the plant is a real thing that kill people, in contrast to all the online stuff and digital money. This tension between the real world/objects (eg, paper money) and the non-substantive world (in which Elliot operates) is a major theme.

It remains unclear whether Angela is undercover in E Corp or being corrupted by money and success. I'm inclined to the former.

------------

From season 1, we know Esmail likes to hide critical information in a line of dialog. Darlene's line, "We might be owned." seems important. Remember that this story was inspired by Arab Spring. That was a real example of how a revolution for progress, started by students and the poor, later got owned by more powerful and organized forces. The same can be said of many other revolutions throughout history. I think we're all familiar with some such cases.

So I think we can safely expect the revolutionary youths like Elliot and Darlene to be owned and used by older and more powerful people in the story, be it the bitcoin mafia run by the seemingly benevolent Craig Robinson (mental hospital warden?), or E Corp suits like Price, or FBI's Berenstain program.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-08-03 20:22

OMG White Rose is ...! :worthy: :worthy:

Oh no! Don't do this!

我认出了 Silk Road 原型!
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

dropby
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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by dropby » 2016-08-04 15:45

我看了两集,觉得很不耐烦,还没能鼓起勇气看第三集。值不值得继续看呢?

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-08-04 15:46

前三集几乎没有任何剧情进展。

然后昨晚那集就爆炸了。看到我差点从椅子上跌下来。拍得非常好。

可以跳过前三集,从昨天那集开始看。

惊叹一下卡司,Craig Robinson 演起看似好人的坏人真的好可怕呀。

Question of the day: Where is ... No, not Tyrell Wellick, but Flipper the dog?!

My theory: Krista's ex-boyfriend found Elliot and Flipper through the microchip and called police. The police came to his door at the end of Season 1. They took Flipper back to the original owner and locked up Elliot in a mental institution (or jail, but I doubt it).

(立此存照)
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-08-10 23:01

Oh no, this is so trippy...

https://www.whoismrrobot.com/

Insane ... :headscratch: :gros_yeux_tristes:
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-08-17 21:15

哈。哈。哈。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

simonsun
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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by simonsun » 2016-08-22 3:48

最后两分钟是什么鬼 :dog001:
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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-08-22 9:12

这个不算掉包袱,因为搞得很明显,Vox 还是哪个网站很早就猜到了。

我很得意的说,Tyrell 被干掉了是自己猜到的。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by simonsun » 2016-08-22 14:51

真的被干掉了嘛?我为什么要相信现在的解释呢?你道歉了我就要相信吗? :mrgreen:
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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-08-22 15:07

因为在上集结尾时 Elliot 对观众说,我保证,以后不再瞒着你了。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by simonsun » 2016-08-22 21:29

Jun wrote:因为在上集结尾时 Elliot 对观众说,我保证,以后不再瞒着你了。
我为什么要相信他 :roll:
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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-08-23 9:51

Because everything in the plot so far makes perfect sense from the point of view of psychotherapy.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-08-27 9:46

I think my theory has proven true. The reason for putting and keeping Elliot away for half a season was to lead Darlene down the road to the event/action in this episode. It couldn't have happened if Elliot were out and about. This is the same approach to keeping Daenerys in Meereen. The intention is to place both Darlene and Elliot in the same parallel position.
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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Re: Mr. Robot(剧透啦剧透啦)

Post by Jun » 2016-08-31 20:17

纽约时报登了一篇详细报道,意图理清 Julian Assange 跟俄国政府/Putin 的关系。感觉又被 Sam Esmail 猜到了,Life imitates art。现在 Mr. Robot 的剧情走向应该是(如果我没猜错的话):想搞革命的幼稚 hacker 青年们被幕后的外国势力(BD Wong 的 Dark Army 实际上是中国政府的黑客部队)利用了,表面上是打倒资本主义的革命,实际上是一国暗地搞垮另一国的活动。None of this came out of the thin air. 所有这些剧情都在现实中有迹可寻。
There was nothing to warn anyone about. The world went on, even as it fell apart, changed irrevocably, became something strange and different. --- "Acceptance" in The Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff VanderMeer

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