[book]堕入情网

入得谷来,祸福自求。
Knowing
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Knowing » 2016-05-31 15:07

二丫这是要跟那个讨厌女孩血拼了么?
Jaime 和brienne 要重逢了。我一直希望他们俩在一起的!
小玫瑰葫芦里卖的什么药?不信她真心归顺大麻雀。
Sam 他爹太可怕了,好心疼小胖子。
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dropby
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by dropby » 2016-05-31 15:52

二丫那个演员现在是不是换毛期?这一季里丑死了。

小玫瑰肯定是利用大麻雀,同时大麻雀想利用她。最后谁利用了谁就要看了。感觉她应该比Cercei棋高一着才对?

幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-05-31 16:01

这集没死人!还活了一个!这季开始Stark家要开始转运了吗?目前已经复活两个了!之后大家都要去Riverrun, 猫阿姨会不会也出场呢?
二丫可算是要摆脱那些人了,根本就气场不合嘛!这帮人语法奇怪,没人称代词,自己没脸没皮还喜欢扒别人人皮,难道跟小扒皮他们一个祖师爷?趁早决裂的好!
小玫瑰是为了不裸体走walk of atonement,跟high sparrow达成协议,劝说老公跟教会联手。之后就不知道了。目前看来她是自保手段非常强,审时度势能屈能伸利益当先,比cercei聪明但不像cercei那么高傲。如果说她就这一招,先混过去再慢慢图谋也有可能。然后估计她要跟祖母见面,再跟家族密谋些什么吧。
Sam和Tyrion真是一对难兄难弟!
感觉这一季build up 到这里差不多了,各方人马都向高潮奔去 -- 中部Riverrun战役,南方龙女率领战舰,浩浩荡荡驶回故国,北方white walkers集结大军南下。下一季也许冰与火就能正面遭遇战了?

幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-05-31 16:04

哦对了,Jaime骑马上台阶很帅!可惜没啥用。。。说起来他从剧集开始以来就一直很帅,但无用。。。

Jun
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-05-31 16:23

幻儿 wrote:这帮人语法奇怪,没人称代词,自己没脸没皮还喜欢扒别人人皮,难道跟小扒皮他们一个祖师爷?趁早决裂的好!
哈哈哈哈。 :lol: 据说本季后面会呼啦啦死很多人,有重大逆转情节。

Jaime 确实挺帅的!不过他坐在马上斜眼看儿子气得耳朵里冒蒸汽那段笑死我了。

贴一点周末在 Balticon 的见闻。

2013年10月,胖大叔就来过本地,作为特别嘉宾参加华盛顿科幻小说协会 (Washington Science Fiction Association) 主办的 Capclave 年会。2016年又作为特别嘉宾参加巴尔的摩科幻小说协会主办的 Balticon。他不是之前说过取消各种活动,要在家埋头赶工吗?为什么会来巴尔的摩?在开幕式上的讲话,大叔提到太太 Parris 是巴尔的摩本地人,亲友不少,大概因此而屡次来这里参加活动。

在本届 Balticon 的三天里,老头的时间表排得很满。星期五晚上在开幕式上讲话。星期六上午给书迷签名合影一个半钟头,下午有两个谈话讲座,每个各一小时。星期日上午又是签名一个半钟头,下午一场朗读会一个钟头。这还不包括中间跟主办工作人员吃饭社交聊天等等活动。正面看看吧,觉得他虽然确实挺胖,但还没到美国乡村的痴肥程度,看着挺精神的。他说他娘活到九十八岁!大概这就是他的信心来源?

四场公开讲座我都去了,但是签书过程中的交谈以及跟大会志愿者的幕后交谈,或许有更多内容。我真佩服他能连续不断地讲讲讲,但是到头来并没有透露小说中的重大秘密。

星期天最后一场是朗读会。这场虽然排在最后,但是这是众人期待的重头戏。事先已有传言马丁会来念之前未曾放出的新章节,所以众冰火迷在开场前一个钟头就开始排队等着进场,生怕错过了。一上来大叔有点矫情地拿出三个选择让我们挑:之前在他的网站上贴过的 Arya 一章,题目 Mercy;之前没放出过的一章 Aeron Damphair;或是他给“冰与火的世界”这本书写的番外伪历史 (fake history),关于 Aegon the Conqueror 的两个儿子的历史。大家肚子里暗笑,明明只带来一章全新的小说内容,还让我们挑,这有啥好挑的啊,当然要听 Aeron 的章节啦。于是热烈响应。大叔假装吃惊地说,没想到 Greyjoy 家有这么多粉丝啊,他们全家都是神经病哎,你们这群变态!群众心照不宣地哄笑。别的作者朗读作品都是掏出 iPad 或者电脑来念,大叔刷地一下掏出一叠纸来,果然是传说中在古老文字处理机上写出来的。马丁的朗读虽然赶不上传说中的狄更斯边读边演,跌宕起伏,却也声情并茂,引人入胜。关于这章的具体内容,网上有十分详细的文字记录,我就不复述了。主要从 Aeron Greyjoy 的角度描述 Euron Greyjoy 的行踪。

读完这章后马丁回答了几个观众问题。本章内容显然勾起了关于宗教的联想,有敏锐的读者立刻提问他是怎么考虑冰火世界中的宗教的。大叔回答说,他小时候家里是天主教,街坊邻居不管是爱尔兰裔,波兰裔,意大利裔,全是天主教!但是他自己天性喜欢追究理性,六岁就自己得出圣诞老人不存在的结论 --- 我家连烟囱都没有,他从哪儿进来送礼物呀?但是他可不会跟别人说,说了就没礼物啦。虽然他自己不太信教,但是宗教对于一个建立在中世纪模型的奇幻世界是很重要的。连 Tolkien 自己这么信教的人,写的中土世界却不存在明显的信仰,不是太奇怪了吗?更重要的是,这是奇幻世界呀,里面是有魔法的呀,有魔法怎么会没宗教?比如有人问,为啥无旗兄弟会的人都改信了红神,嘿,他们亲眼看见 Thoros 把死人都复活了,这么厉害,换了我我也得信了。小说里的宗教都是现实中的宗教改头换面编出来的。

有人问,您能不能确认一下 Arthur Dayne 到底死了没有?大叔格格笑着说,我啥都不确认,让奇葩理论满天飞吧。显然他是听说过各种“谁谁其实是谁谁”的奇怪理论。

有人很勇敢地提问:Jon Snow 的父母是谁?大叔有备而来地回答:他娘是 Kardashian 姐妹之一,他爹是 Justin Bieber。众哄笑。

有人问,冰火里的人物,你最认同谁呢?他说,其实每个人物都有认同。这是写故事需要的能力,即使是配角你也要设身处地替他们感同身受,才能写得好。我在教写作课的时候跟学生说过,虽然一般的理论是,写你熟悉的题材,当然你最熟悉的是自己。但有时也要反其道而行之,写点你不熟悉的,越是跟自己千差万别的人,越要跟他发展出共情。跟我自己最象的人物不在这套小说里,而是以前写的某个人物(我没听清楚,以前也没看过,没认出),他的生活背景跟我几乎一样,只是我没有他的超能力(众笑)。在冰火里面么,我倒是想代入个又帅又能打的大英雄,Jon Snow 啦,Robb Stark 啦,可是我其实最像 Sam。女书迷们老是写信进来说她们喜欢谁谁,连猎狗和 Theon Greyjoy 都有人爱 --- Theon 哎!有没有搞错。咋就没人爱 Sam 涅?Sam 又正直又善良,咋没有 Sam 粉咧?真桑心啊(全场哄笑)。

当时我坐在观众席的中间一排,不幸被工作人员赶到最靠边的座位,心想大叔一定看不见我举手提问的,差点就自暴自弃不举手了。但是,他指到我坐在我前面一排的一个胖姑娘,又让我觉得或许他能看见我,于是又把手举起来了。

胖姑娘提的问题是,我特别喜欢 Brienne,她受到的欺负白眼,我深有同感,您是怎么写出来这个人物的呢?有没有什么原型涅?大叔答,现代科幻奇幻小说常常会对经典小说进行反思和对话。传统的奇幻故事里经常有穿着 chainmail 比基尼的女战士,让人以为穿着那点衣服就可以上阵打仗了 … (哄笑)受到前辈的启发,我想来点反其道而行之,用真实的设定。中世纪时打仗很累的,那刀剑都不怎么锋利,就算本来锋利,上去砍两下也就钝了,经常是把人砸死而不是砍死的。所以中世纪武士需要非常强壮的上肢力量啊。如此设计一个中世纪女战士,就不能是游戏里那样,而是得长得象 Brienne 那样的。然后联想一个象她那样的女人在当时的社会里会是怎样的处境呢?于是就写出来了。

本来都说完了,大叔又杀回来捅一刀,“别以为她就安全了!”

大叔挑问题是左边一个右边一个,答完了胖姑娘又去答右边问题。这时候工作人员过来说时间不够了还剩一个问题,一个!我想哇最后的机会了!大叔答完右边的问题回到左边,居然就指着我这边说,你!我我我,我就站起来问了最后一个问题:请说说莎士比亚对您的影响。

嗯,莎士比亚,大叔说,我好喜欢他,尤其是历史剧。说起来莎士比亚是笼罩在所有作家头上的巨大存在 (looms large over everyone, 无贬义),要超过 Tolkien 倒是还敢想想,但是谁敢想超过莎士比亚啊。我是看了莎翁历史剧才开始对于玫瑰战争有兴趣的,例如理查三世,人物写得超恶超精彩,实际上都是扯淡 (bullshit),真实的理查三世跟剧里的根本两回事!他是为了拍都铎家族的马屁才那么写的。我把莎剧里关于玫瑰战争的那些统统看了。其实我写 Mercy 那章就是直指理查三世的, Tyrion 怎么被戏班子抹黑变形面目全非。

问答就此结束。马大叔这几年红得厉害,来科幻大会也不能好好地溜达,经常被众人围堵,这次他都是讲座一完就从后台溜走,不能留下来跟大家聊天,否则就别想脱身啦。

当时觉得大叔说的这些话,我早就推测出来了,似乎没什么新发现。今天一琢磨,嗯,如果他最早是看了莎剧才对玫瑰战争发生兴趣的,那他对于历史的疯狂钻研,显然也是在那之后。他自己说,写冰火本来打算写成历史小说,多半是翻版玫瑰战争,结果掉进了历史大坑之后就出不来了,越挖越深,越挖越大,一眨眼二十多年过去了 ... 难道,追根朔源这事儿还得怪莎士比亚?! :shock: :shock:
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幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-05-31 17:44

我把莎剧里关于玫瑰战争的那些统统看了。其实我写 Mercy 那章就是直指理查三世的, Tyrion 怎么被戏班子抹黑变形面目全非。
啊啊啊我说怎么看这段莫名其妙的眼熟,Tyrion和理查三世,艺术创作与历史真相。。。说起来大叔写的确实好,情节人物就不用说了,文笔还时不时让人惊艳,竟然还有深度。

Jun
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-05-31 18:17

这个戏中戏的结构本来就是抄 Hamlet 的。莎士比亚还特起劲地大谈人生如戏,戏如人生。

剧集里这段戏中戏跟大叔之前在网站上放出来的一章 Mercy 相当近似,但是刺杀对象改掉了,因为原著里 Arya 是被派去到戏班里去学演戏的,结果偶遇在她那死亡名单上的一个人 (Raff the Sweetling),她就出手把他干掉了。那段写的非常痛快,一刀割开大腿上的动脉,血直喷出来。但是这桥段已经被剧集在上一季给用掉了(杀了 Meryn Trant),所以不能再用。这一章里对于河边的剧院里里外外的描述是大叔赤裸裸的对莎士比亚时代的戏园子的考证和想象。

我越看越觉得大叔也是沉迷莎士比亚的粉丝。
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tiffany
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by tiffany » 2016-05-31 19:28

难道我要开始研读沙翁作品了吗?
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Knowing
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Knowing » 2016-06-07 1:17

不是莎士比亚粉丝的好作家大概不多。
最新这集看的我好糟心啊,刚高兴了一下看见猎狗活下来,就被屠门了。阿莎的角色怎么被改成蕾丝边了?贱人theon还拯救什么我看到他都生气死了算了!熊岛小姑娘的那段很可爱!改自现成原著的黑鱼和JAIME那段也很精彩。黑鱼的演员好赞!!!!看着爽死了。
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2016-06-07 12:07

我一直没时间追剧。某人出差回来补追的时候,我瞟了两眼。看到龙女故技重施,又烧一遍,差点没给气死。要烧非选在人家祭祀的最最神圣的地方,马族本来自己什么也不建,这下把人唯一的大庙给烧没了。龙女这么考虑周全的人会做这种事?把人的庙给烧了,大家就自动给跪了,这是什么逻辑?
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幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-06-07 12:35

那个小姑娘演技真的很赞!好有气势!62个人也很理直气壮! :mrgreen:

Knowing
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Knowing » 2016-06-08 2:36

是的是的!超级棒,我喜欢!
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幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-06-13 13:56

这集有点underwhelming,打戏都off camera,比如Arya和Blackfish的,围城战也兵不血刃的解决了。Jamie和Brienne的戏很动人。
现在我就期待下一集:Battle of Bastards, 在父亲节隆重推出 :mrgreen:
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2016-06-13 13:59

Bastardbowl :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Knowing
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Knowing » 2016-06-14 5:16

Jamie和Brienne的戏的确动人,加上bronn 和podrick 的一个逗哏一个捧哏,赞!
这集其它就很郁闷了。情节发展都早十分钟可以预测,太没意思。我尤其生气黑鱼死了。黑鱼在书里逃走了!而且这里没道理他不同意去帮 sansa.
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Jun
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-14 14:51

自从在 Balticon 听胖大叔念新章节之后,我就心定了很多。剧集不会破坏看小说的享受,因为差太远太远了,而且很明显情节会大部分不一样,只有少数人物的结局是重合的,例如 Arya 会做回母狼,回到家乡;Jon Snow 会复活,变成狼;Dany 会驾龙飞回来;京城会被 Cersei 烧掉。
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Jun
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-15 18:32

这个音乐剧版本 Game of Thrones 大家都看过了吗?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs7xO5P3Az4
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Jun
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-16 22:48

我写了一篇巨长的冰火统一论:

While the Game of Thrones TV series has turned into fan fiction of the novels of ASOIAF (or some may say, parody), this fan fiction has the advantage of having learned the grand finale from GRRM himself. The main characters' fates and big story arcs will likely to be generally consistent. For example, Jon Snow has been resurrected. Arya Stark is heading back to Westeros. Cersei Lannister will blow up King's Landing with wildfire. Daenerys Targaryen has tamed Drogon. Looming events include the dominance of Littlefinger Petyr Baelish and the Others and their zombies swarming over the Wall.

In the two novels plus 11 chapters released to date, a trend that is more pronounced than geographical convergence might be the spiritual "homecoming" of major characters. Daenerys has changed her principle from "If I look back I am lost" to actually looking back to her past. Jon Snow was planning to ride to Winterfell before he was stabbed by Bowen Marsh and co. Tyrion, oddly enough, connects to home by selling it off to Brown Ben Plumm and his Second Sons army.

The human Arya may not be heading home up to the chapter "Mercy," her constant warging into Nymeria suggests that her spirit may have already returned. Most notable, Bran's "return" reaches into the past of not only his family but the entire history of First Men and Children of the Forest, native populations of the ancient and mythical North. This, perhaps, is the grand and ultimate home that the story is heading toward.

Thus we are faced with a question: What is home? What is the origin? Here another pattern emerges. Some of the main characters are not human but rather beasts. Below are the definite cases:

Dany: Her merge with Drogon, which I predicted and is all but confirmed by the TV series, marks her as a nonhuman figure. Dragons are not humanized or civilized, as we've been told. She has finally embraced her inner dragon that will bring fire and blood instead of peace to the world.

Arya: She is now living as a direwolf at night and a killer during the day with plenty of bloodletting. She had began shape-shifting when she became Arry in Yoren's ragtag group and her transformation is about to complete.

Jon Snow: I am still expecting that he would warg into Ghost in death and come back into human shape later. Obviously it's not something the TV series want to shoot. Regardless, his death and subsequent break with the Night's Watch symbolize his break with humanity and regaining his direwolf identity.

Bran: Heck he's not even a direwolf any more. He's the collective conscious of all living beings, past and present, of the North, and only a small part of that is First Men. I'm wondering if The Winds of Winter would skip his viewpoint because it would reveal absolutely everything. He might be the personification, or at least the representative, of the old gods.

Then there are a few intermediary characters whose nature remains unclear:

Sansa: All Stark children are wargs, GRRM has said. The obvious problem is that Sansa no longer has her Direwolf. More important, she is a civilized person, and her education has continued through Uncle Petyr. She will she ever return to her identity as a wolf or stay human, it remains unpredictable.

Tyrion: This is entirely my speculation -- it's dependent on whether he turns out to be a Targaryen or a Lannister. It's clear by now that all Lannisters are human. Despite the lion sigil, we have yet to see one real lion in the whole of Westeros and Essos, while both Direwolves and Dragons have roamed the land and devoured men. It all depends on whether he will telepathically bond with either Viserion or Rhaegal.

On the human team, we know that all Lannisters are human. All Tyrells are human. The Freys are obviously human. The Greyjoys are human as well. The Martells are probably human, although they are a bit more wild than those living in the middle of Westeros. The rest is just wolf or dragon chow.

The free folk are descendants of First Men and therefore are probably on the side of beasts and old gods. The Others ... ah, that's the heart of the question. Rising out of the North, it may or may not be in the same league as the old gods, but they are certainly not humans. Maybe that is why they are named "the Others"?

Hence the structure of the ASOIAF universe becomes clear and almost simple: On one side are humans in a civilized and organized society; on the other side are mythical beasts and and prehistorical forces of nature. This is a story of man versus nature, civilization versus the primitive, and reason versus animal instincts in a person.

The structure also generally fits the Ragnarok theory put forth by Dorian the Historian a few years ago and of which I'm a believer. In the Ragnarok (meaning "The Doom of the Gods") mythology, the Norse gods, including Loki and Thor and Odin, exist in human-like form and behave like humans despite their superpowers. Their opponents in the apocalyptic war are jotnar (singular, jotunn), mistakenly translated as giants, which might be why GRRM jokingly put real giants into the story. While the characters in ASOIAF may not perfectly match each of the gods and jotnar in Ragnarok as outlined by Dorian the Historian, jotnar are fundamentally the same as the old gods of the North.

The gods live in Asgard, or Innangard, which literally means within boundary. The gods protect humans and civilization, ie, social order and laws. Looking at it in another way, civilized people are all restricted by laws and rules of behavior. Jotnar live in Utangard, meaning outside boundary. They represent "forces of destruction, entropy, and decay." This fits neatly with the chaotic, destructive nature of old gods. Beasts --- direwolves and dragons --- symbolize the wild and sometimes violent nature in us. For example, in the war between Children and First Men, Children used magic to bring about earthquakes, which caused the Arm of Dorne to break and sink into the sea. The Jotnar are supernatural forces that literally devour the world, especially civilization. This is an unmistakable parallel to the direwolves and dragons that devour humans in the story, including the human tendencies in the characters themselves.

We know, from GRRM's earlier fiction, that he has always been fascinated by death and decay of entire civilizations. It is no surprise that, in his magnum opus, he will unleash all the jotnar onto the world and let them devour humanity. Wild nature will win. Anyone waiting for a battle between good and evil in the Judeo-Christian context, with the good triumphant, is bound to be disappointed.
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-19 23:15

哇哈哈哈,我可以肯定胖大叔写出来的跟电视剧的情节大相径庭分道扬镳。谁也不会 spoil 了谁!

我可以想象,去年夏天 Benioff and Weiss 去找胖大叔,得到了大结局,出得门来脸都绿了 --- 咱们可不能这么拍呀。不行咱们得把胖大叔的丧气故事改成人民大众能下咽的剧情让大家热血沸腾还 feel good about themselves。

这一集可把 Jon Snow 给黑惨了。人家有那么愚蠢吗 ...

他们显然暗示 Sansa 怀上了 Ramsay 的孩子。

Of course none of this makes any sense. 各种 deus ex machina. 从头到尾就没说清楚,Jon Snow 和 Sansa 为什么急着要攻打 Winterfell。

GRRM 在家里看这一集一定一边看一边咯咯娇笑,打仗又不穿铁甲,又不戴全头盔,又不带盾牌。他对于中世纪的兵器和战略很有研究,几年前还跟书迷解释 half helm 和 full helm 的区别,以及为什么再厉害的骑士也不敢戴了半盔就上战场,你不要脑袋了?象 Jon Snow, Ramsay Bolton, 一干人都光着头上战场,算你狠。
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by mirrorflower » 2016-06-20 8:15

对,我一边看一边嘟囔,Jon know nothing Snow 已经成了 Jon can do nothing Snow 了,死过一次的人了怎么更挫了
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幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-06-20 8:23

这集看得很爽,打仗部分好像看战争大片一样,很厉害!前面龙女率领三头龙火烧敌方船队,就像现代战争里的战斗机从空中攻击战舰一样,场面非常壮观!后面Jon Snow他们的战斗场景非常震撼,人命的微不足道,尸体的堆积如山(literally),没被敌人杀死却可能被己方马踏脚踩被挤死,Jon Snow快被踩死的时候看到的那些忽忽闪过的身影和天空,就视觉和情感体验来说堪称完美!Ramsey的败亡也处理得很有层次,就算大家都知道他的结局,但是这个过程的execution非常好,符合甚至超过我的预期。

至于权谋部分,Jon Snow果然还是Stark家的人,除了honor和擅长单打独斗就没别的了,跟Ramsey一比简直好像完全不会打仗。感觉他似乎一心求死,根本不想赢似的。说起来倒也是,他不过是私生子,跟Ramsey还不一样,Winterfell还有正牌继承人呢,Jon Snow赢了也是为他人做嫁衣裳,他这么拼命也不过是honor罢了,但凡有点权谋,也该知道保存实力。Sansa也奇怪,为什么不肯告诉她哥援兵将至呢?她不确定小手指会来不敢贸然开口?还是为了消耗掉她哥的军队?不过这也太腹黑了,不符合Stark家的特点啊,而且她怎么知道自己一定能控制小手指的军队呢?希望后文会有交代。

这集在父亲节播出真是相当黑色幽默,不光是俩私生子决站,龙女和Yara还一个劲的说我们的父亲如何如何不堪 :mrgreen:

Sansa怀了Ramsey的孩子?怎么看出来的?

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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-20 8:28

Ramsay对他老婆说 I'm a part of you. 所以 Sansa 要马上嫁给小手指蜀黍让他做便宜亲爹吗?太俗套了。
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幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-06-20 8:33

Oh nooooo!

这集女权思想很浓,难道将来龙女统一七国,Tyrion辅佐;Yara夺回铁岛,Theon辅佐;Sansa统一北方,Jon Snow/小手指辅佐?女的当领导,男的全当副手? :mrgreen:

Elysees
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Elysees » 2016-06-20 9:02

本季播完了?小剥皮终于挂了么?
我的xfinity go非常不幸在中国不work,我又没掌握别的看片方式,只能等回去再看了。人们都高贵的不给我剧透,其实我不介意剧透啊。
我自横刀向天笑,笑完我就去睡觉。

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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-20 9:58

小剥皮真的 ... 被狗吃了。

龙妈骑龙那段确实很好看!但是另外两头龙没人骑了吗?Tyrion 那么喜欢龙,没机会骑吗?而且 Yara 勾引 Dany 那段太廉价了吧。

网上有不少人疑神疑鬼觉得 Sansa 要跟 Jon Snow 抢 Lord of Winterfell 的位子。屁,在 Bran 没出现的情况下,Sansa 本来就是正宗继承人,Jon Snow 根本没资格。

电视剧这么编,很多人大呼痛快,全然忘记了胖大叔一贯的本质就是不让你痛快。所以很明显这剧情跟胖大叔毫无关联,你们想好是要看让你觉得痛快的爽的英雄主义情节还是胖大叔那样伤感而真实而郁闷但是很惊骇意外的情节。
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Knowing
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Knowing » 2016-06-21 0:53

矛盾的感到战争场面非常好看,虽然jon snow 实在显的太蠢。另外小剥皮的死太drawn out。每个观众都能预料发生什么,只血腥不恐怖,反而没意思。

编剧把双性恋的asha 改成蕾丝边yara 就是为了让她跟龙女勾搭上?以弥补删除原著里瑟禧搞女人的遗憾?

我觉得这季度没了书,编剧没了主心骨,拼血腥拼残酷拼震惊,但是情节布置的太差了,所有的twist 都三十分钟前就能预测,完全失去了原书特有的意料之外情理之中粉丝全体shell shock 的大转折效果。
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幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-06-22 10:57

Ramsey扮演者的采访。关于Sansa是否怀孕请看他的回答。 I‘m quite hopeful that she's not! :mrgreen:
http://www.refinery29.com/2016/06/11451 ... -interview
What was it like to film that final scene with Sansa?
"It was cool. I thought it was a really well-written scene. And it was quite uncomfortable because I was covered in blood and mud and bits and prosthetics with being tied to the chair. But yeah it was actually the last scene that I shot as well, so it was quite exciting."

I have to ask: what did Ramsay mean when he told Sansa that he’s a part of her now?
"Well I think what he means is that, what he’s done to her, she won’t be able to shake off and he has kind of broken her. In the same way that Theon will never be able to shake Reek off because of the psychological torture and physical torture. By doing all these horrible things to her, he has left his mark on her and therefore he is part of her."


So, it’s not that she’s pregnant? (As many fans have speculated.)
"(Laughs) "Well unless Ramsay has got an incredible talent of being able to spot pregnant women, then I don’t know. I don’t know if he has examined her or anything. I have absolutely no idea, so you’ll have to just wait until next season to find out. Like me."


As an actor, how does it feel to do all of these violent scenes, especially involving women?
"It’s pretty horrible, really. Like the rape scene in season 5, that was an immensely difficult scene to shoot just because of the nature of it and the horror of the situation. But that’s probably the worst one, I think. All of the other things, like in season 4 when the girl was being chased by the dogs; when you’re filming it, it’s more technical, so you’re imagining these things but you aren’t really seeing them. So you don’t actually believe that it’s a real thing going on in front of you. The dogs aren’t anywhere near the girl and it’s all compartmentalized in the way that it’s filmed. You know, it’s horrible. When you think about it, it’s horrible. But you just have to get on with it. I mean I didn’t like it, it’s just what the character that I play does."

Did you and Sophie Turner talk at all before filming the rape scene?
"Yeah. Well yeah, I mean it was a really awkward day on set and everyone was very somber because Sophie has been on this since the beginning. And a lot of the crew has also been on it since the beginning and they have kind of seen her grow up. I think that the realization of what was really going on really hit everyone quite hard. It was a really difficult day. But Sophie was fantastic, and we had to be very professional about it and just shoot the scene. Luckily Sophie was very mature and professional about the whole thing. But we just got on with it and did it."

Was there part of Ramsay that you were able to connect to? Did you invent an emotional backstory for him at all?
"I guess his backstory has a lot to do with wanting his father’s affection and love. In a way, that’s what he’s been after his whole life. He’s been left to his own devices on the cusp of the society being a bastard in the North. So he’s particularly been messed up, and he is the kind of person that you don’t leave to their own devices because he’s kind of gone off and lost his sense of morality. Especially having a father like his that isn’t the nicest in the world and coming from that family. So it’s been very difficult to sort of relate to him in any way because he is a complete and utter lunatic."

Did this role change anything about you personally?
"Nah. If you’re asking me if I’m a psychopath, no."

Did you ever feel weird after shooting a particularly sadistic scene? Or do you just really compartmentalize it?
"I’m quite good at detaching from my characters, basically. There might be, sort of, a shadow of them for a while, but you just have to go about your normal stuff. Like after we finish shooting, we always go out and have dinner, maybe shoot some pool and have a couple of beers and that’s kind of it. Because that’s the only way to do it, I think. I can’t, sort of, carry him around with me all the time."

Did you do anything special to say goodbye to your character?
"It was only me and Sophie. It was quite late when we finished. We were both really tired and we just had a drink and pretty much went to bed. It was definitely unceremonious."

Are you worried about only being cast as a villain now?
"Yeah."

Who is the ideal villain that you would want to play?
"I don’t really want to play any villains for a while. But I’d like to have a pop at Iago in Othello — if he's a villain at all.


Who do you think would win in a battle between Ramsay Bolton and Donald Trump?
"What, man to man?"

Yes.
"Ramsay would kick his ass! Donald Trump, an old chap, against Ramsay? No chance! He’s an old, mad man."

dropby
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by dropby » 2016-06-22 11:28

Sansa应该没有怀孕。我觉得小剥皮那句话的意思是说,你现在也有一部分和我一样坏了。

我觉得Sansa已经黑化了啊。小剥皮再坏,让他被狗吃这件事还是让人很不舒服。狗咬了人人就去咬狗难道不是把人降低到了狗?而且Sansa应该知道小指头叔叔会带援兵来。但是等援兵来了再打和让John Snow的人先和小剥皮打援兵再出来效果完全不同。John Snow是很没用,但是他也很无奈。

我看电视剧的时候完全不考虑大叔应该是怎么写的,所以觉得电视剧还是挺好看的。

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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-22 12:36

I am pretty convinced that Sansa is preggers. I could be wrong.
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Knowing
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Knowing » 2016-06-23 0:48

uh, sansa 现在就挺恐怖的了。放狗吃人这是人干的事儿吗?她就是开始变小剥皮了。
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Jun
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-23 0:58

大家都觉得 Sansa 不该放狗吃人吗?那 Dany 放龙烧人已经很多集了也不该?还有 Arya 也杀了不少人了。等等,我忽然意识到大叔写了好多女凶手!(虽然 Sansa 在书里还没亲手杀人,只是帮凶了一下。)
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Knowing
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Knowing » 2016-06-23 1:13

借用弯男定义弯直性质常用的一句话: it is not what you did, it is whether you enjoyed it. :mrgreen:
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幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-06-23 9:55

我觉得Sansa很好! 放狗吃人看吃的是谁啊,吃Ramsey那叫大快人心,Ramsey死得其所! :mrgreen:
我挺喜欢Ramsey败亡这段。先是兵败,然后被Jon Snow拳拳见血揍一顿 -- 必须肉搏才解恨,放箭或者乱军中不明不白的死就不对味儿了。然后Jon Snow看见Sansa猛然醒悟Ramsey的命得给Sansa留着。然后Sansa上场用Ramsey自己养的狗把他吃了,Ramsey自食其果,干得好!

大约就是各人对某些人物的感情或者对某些遭遇的观感不同吧,比如很多人觉得Cerci裸身走过闹市被人羞辱是罪有应得,但我很可怜她,觉得she doesn't deserve this kind of insult...

dropby
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by dropby » 2016-06-23 11:06

我觉得不管啥人都只能说死不足惜,但都不应该是被狗吃这种死法。当然你可以说小剥皮不是人。

同样,不管是Cerci还是任何女人,我都不会觉得裸身走过闹市被人羞辱是罪有应得。

薇琪
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 薇琪 » 2016-06-23 13:57

dropby wrote:我觉得不管啥人都只能说死不足惜,但都不应该是被狗吃这种死法。当然你可以说小剥皮不是人。

同样,不管是Cerci还是任何女人,我都不会觉得裸身走过闹市被人羞辱是罪有应得。
严重握手!

虽然其实这一季我还只看了两集 :mrgreen:

Knowing
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Knowing » 2016-06-23 14:59

我并不是批评sansa 恨小剥皮,怎么报复都合理。但是‘我要报复他叫他死的很惨‘跟下了命令然后站着那儿亲眼看整个过程,心理素质完全不一样。打个不恰当的比分,平地上放个小板凳让你站上去谁都做得到,在摩天大楼之间搭个木条上面再放个小板凳把你架上去站着,能站稳了不哆嗦掉下去的人就不多了。sansa 对残忍行为的耐受力已经不是一般人了,这就是小剥皮给她造成的影响。所以挺恐怖的。
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-26 20:18

第十集拍得很好,我终于满意了。
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幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-06-27 11:00

第十集开头部分大家庄严肃穆的穿战袍,背景是在这个剧集里从没出现过的音乐,山雨欲来的气氛渲染到极致。Margery, 我最喜欢的人物之一,居然就这么死了,虽然也蛮顺理成章,还是有点难过。Tommen的死我完全没有想到!他平常磨磨唧唧,临了倒有了决断。这集很多画面构图非常精美,Tommen最后一个镜头就是,平衡稳定的画面优雅的失去了中心。。。Cercei到底在想啥?不快点过来安慰儿子,却跑去折磨一个囚犯?口口声声说爱孩子,可她办的这些事儿。。。她终于得到了渴望已久为之奋斗已久的权力,甚至坐上了iron throne,但在这个过程中,她死了父亲,死了丈夫,死了全部三个孩子,也许爱人哥哥也会离心。。。Is it worth it after all?
Arya杀人这段很chilling,熊岛小姑娘好勇敢,年轻的女王率领海陆空三军浩浩荡荡出发了。。。明年再见。

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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-27 11:34

Jon Snow cannot be King in the North. 私生子完全没有继承权的,况且他也不是 Stark 而是 Targaryen。Winterfell 属于 Bran,既然 Bran 出家了,就应该属于大小姐 Sansa。那一段非常没有逻辑。

Dany 和 Daario 和 Tyrion 的对话简直就是从伊丽莎白一世里抄来的:我要跟求婚者谈价钱,但是最后可能谁也不嫁,但是我也不能随身带着个情人(Why not?)。
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幻儿
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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-06-27 11:44

Jon Snow还成了龙女的侄儿呢!龙女甩了床伴打算嫁人,当然是北王最合适,在龙家兄妹可以成亲,姑侄大约也可以? :headscratch: 我一想到Jon Snow知道真相以后管龙女叫姑姑,一下子穿越到神雕了 :shock: Can't think too much about it!

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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2016-06-27 12:35

Cercei 的预言就是她的娃都会卫冕之后死去,最后(所以应该是她娃都死在她前面)她所珍惜的一切(就是权力+狮家的名望)都会被一个更年轻美貌的女王夺走。编剧没那么通人物的细节性格,但是这个路是对的。
云浆未饮结成冰

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Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 克里斯汀 » 2016-06-27 14:13

我完全没有被提前剧透过,所以看到这一集简直目瞪口呆,聪明有心计能和瑟曦抗衡一二的小玫瑰就这么死了? 和大麻雀,一家子提利尔和君临城一半的贵族? 虽然这部书(剧)里再死谁我也不会太捶胸顿足,反正大概都会死清光,谁迟谁早而已,但还是觉得好可惜。现在想苦苦哀求剧组留住的就是Tyrion他哥和美人Brienne.
Jon Snow不是不能做北境之王,但是他还没被合格认证过。 小扒皮也是私生子,但是被泰温恩赐了继承人身份。 正宗的北境继承人其实应该是Sansa,但我想象了一下各位领主在熊岛小Lady呼吁下拥护Sansa的场景,又觉得太违和。

克里斯汀
Posts: 173
Joined: 2005-09-20 9:49

Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 克里斯汀 » 2016-06-27 14:18

Jun wrote: Dany 和 Daario 和 Tyrion 的对话简直就是从伊丽莎白一世里抄来的:我要跟求婚者谈价钱,但是最后可能谁也不嫁,但是我也不能随身带着个情人(Why not?)。
对啊,伊丽莎白一世的情人可从来没有断过,前有Robert Dudley, 后有年轻的Essex. 左右不过是基于利益的联盟,和情爱忠贞不相关,干嘛不带上情人呢。

幻儿
Posts: 1636
Joined: 2007-07-31 10:47

Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by 幻儿 » 2016-06-27 14:34

哈哈,我觉得龙女就是厌倦Daario了,武力谋略都一般般,肉体也就那样吧,龙女分明也不怎么留恋。他表白那段也太无力了,就说个我爱你有什么用?论深情你比得上Ser Jorah吗?他啥下场你没看到?你喜欢的女生要当七国的女王诶,你要想跟她一起出征不得说说,你在军中最能发挥才干,谁最适合留下,等等。当然了这也不怪他,怪编剧 :mrgreen: 总之我觉得Daario就没啥用,要床伴的话,Yara不是现成的吗 :mrgreen:

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-28 7:08

克里斯汀 wrote:对啊,伊丽莎白一世的情人可从来没有断过,前有Robert Dudley, 后有年轻的Essex. 左右不过是基于利益的联盟,和情爱忠贞不相关,干嘛不带上情人呢。
据说伊丽莎白一世到最后都是处女,随时都有被检查的危险(不记得在哪里看说法的了)。当然并不一定要 vaginal intercourse 才算情人。
此喵已死,有事烧纸

Knowing
Posts: 34487
Joined: 2003-11-22 20:37

Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Knowing » 2016-06-28 7:14

需要这么精简么,不能把Daario和yara 都留着?挺能打的。哪怕当个贴身卫士。
伊丽莎白一世是童贞女王,传说没跟任何一个情人有肉体关系。那时贵妇人被一堆仰慕者围着说说笑笑打情骂俏再赏点东西, 只要不睡觉,都算正常,她妈安宝林就是这么干的,逗henry8 吃醋。
有事找我请发站内消息

Knowing
Posts: 34487
Joined: 2003-11-22 20:37

Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Knowing » 2016-06-28 16:16

啊,小玫瑰挂的太冤了!
R+L=J 终于被落实。我感到满足又空虚。。。
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mirrorflower
Posts: 1263
Joined: 2008-11-04 17:26

Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by mirrorflower » 2016-06-28 16:28

Knowing wrote:啊,小玫瑰挂的太冤了!
R+L=J 终于被落实。我感到满足又空虚。。。
这个我啥感觉也没有,好像因为很早前我就(在大家的讨论剧透下)确信是这样。。。 :mrgreen:
"A wealth of information creates a poverty of attention."

dropby
Posts: 10921
Joined: 2003-11-24 12:23

Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by dropby » 2016-06-29 0:38

上一集我就很喜欢。这一集看得太满足了。就是还要再等一年。要不要再回去看一遍书来弥补这一年的空虚呢。

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Re: [book]堕入情网

Post by Jun » 2016-06-29 14:19

在胖大叔的 blog 上面看到个很好笑的视频:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/492499.html
此喵已死,有事烧纸

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