Slash Fiction

入得谷来,祸福自求。
Post Reply
Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Slash Fiction

Post by Jun » 2007-10-30 11:17

I don't know if anyone else but me find this fascinating. I have to admit I did not know the term slash fiction before today and the whole discovery stemmed out of some discussion about Harry Potter's author's admission that Dumbledore was gay. I had no idea this phenomenon predates the Internet and male homosexual erotic fiction is so popular among women all over the world, from Japan to US to China to ...

Men like to watch two lesbians making out. Women like to imagine two men making out. The two genders aren't that different after all.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_fiction
Slash fiction is a genre of fan fiction. It focuses on the depiction of sexual or romantic relationships between two or more male characters, who are not necessarily engaged in relationships in the canon universe. While the term originally was restricted to fan fiction in which one or more male media characters were involved in an explicit adult relationship as a primary plot element, it is currently more generally used to refer to any pairing between male characters.
It is commonly believed that slash fiction originated within the Star Trek: The Original Series fan fiction fandom, with "Kirk/Spock" stories first appearing in the late 1970s generally authored by female fans of the series.
For example, Angel/Spike fan fiction within the Buffyverse: in the Angel DVD commentary for "A Hole in the World", Joss Whedon, the creator of Angel said, "Spike and Angel...they were hanging out for years and years and years. They were all kinds of deviant. Are people thinking they never...? Come on, people! They're open-minded guys!" as well as Spike saying "Angel and me have never been intimate. Except that one..." to Illyria in the episode "Power Play." Needless to say, this has been seen as a vindication of some fans who have been arguing this point since the characters met. Some people say they see similar evidence of such relationships in other shows such as Smallville, The O.C, Friends and House.
Real person slash (RPS) gained popularity with the rise of the pop music industry.[7] In particular, the popularity of boy bands in the late 1990s and early 2000s promoted the growth of RPS. These singing groups, like *NSYNC or The Backstreet Boys, had public personas that were carefully designed and marketed to their target audience of girls and young women. As these boy bands were famous for being 'packaged' rather than for the sincerity of their public image, many slash authors had few moral qualms about treating them much like fictional characters. Real person slash involves taking the celebrity's public image and creating slash stories with them.
Slash fiction, like other fan fiction, sometimes borrows the MPAA film rating system, using the labels G, PG, PG-13, R and NC-17 to indicate the amount of sexual content in the story. Not all slash fiction has explicit sexual content, although it should be kept in mind that if a story claims to be or contain slash and is unrated it is likely to be explicit. The interaction between two characters can be as innocent as holding hands or a chaste kiss. As the result of trademark issues over the use of the MPAA rating system, some fandoms have created their own rating systems. If a story contains themes which may offend or which some readers may find distasteful (e.g. rape, incest, BDSM, shota/underage characters, or even heterosexual sex) it is considered polite to include warnings in the story header.

The term 'no lemon' is sometimes used to indicate fanfiction stories without sexual content. Anything with explicit content may be labeled 'lemon'. The terms 'lemon' and 'lime' arose from the anime/yaoi fandoms. 'Lemon' refers to a hentai anime series, Cream Lemon. 'Lime' is sometimes used to indicate that the story contains only mild sexual content, similar to a PG-13 film.

Elysees
Posts: 6758
Joined: 2003-12-05 13:10

Post by Elysees » 2007-10-30 12:20

嘿嘿,嘿嘿嘿嘿(怎么这回没在标题上写小E请进)。
这都是我们的暗号之一啊,“知道斜线(slash)神马意思吗?” :oops: :oops:

“no lemons”目前比较对应的中文大约就是“清水”,“粮食”。 :wink: ,“lemon”有个更时髦的中文翻译,“和谐”, :eyepatch:
我自横刀向天笑,笑完我就去睡觉。

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-10-30 12:29

哈,我就猜你和蓝莲花肯定知道这个。没好意思。 :-P

Did you suspect Dumbledore's orientation before Rawling announced it?

karen
Posts: 3020
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:51

Post by karen » 2007-10-30 12:36

Dumbledore is gay? :shock: :shock: :shock:
There are so many subcultures... :-D

ravaged
Posts: 494
Joined: 2003-12-06 0:16

Post by ravaged » 2007-10-30 12:40

oh gawd.

do men write stories of lesbian relationships? they just get off to pictures or videos imo...
Now that happy moment between the time the lie is told and when it is found out.

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-10-30 12:50

Same difference. Men are just more visual. ALthough I'm not sure how much is nature and how much is nurture.

Haven't you heard about the Harry Potter revelation? It's been all over the news. More reason for religious conservatives to burn the books. Even though I'm not a fan of the series (never read any of the books and only a couple movies), I wish more such subversive books become popular especially with the next generation.

Elysees
Posts: 6758
Joined: 2003-12-05 13:10

Post by Elysees » 2007-10-30 12:50

Jun wrote: Did you suspect Dumbledore's orientation before Rawling announced it?
嗷,不仅如此,他比较流行的配对之一是和Professor Snape(抱头,打人不许打脸),后来Harry儿子的名字叫Albus Severus,还有人感动得痛哭流涕的说,罗琳啊,你这是承认教授和校长是一对儿末、、、、、、 :oops: :oops:
我自横刀向天笑,笑完我就去睡觉。

Elysees
Posts: 6758
Joined: 2003-12-05 13:10

Post by Elysees » 2007-10-30 13:01

karen wrote:Dumbledore is gay? :shock: :shock: :shock:
Of course he's gay. Why else he's single for all his life.

With the seventh book coming out, his other popular rumor lover is......Gellert. Have you read their letters?? (.... But I do not complain, because if you had not been expelled, we would never have met.)
It's so obvious!!!

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
我自横刀向天笑,笑完我就去睡觉。

karen
Posts: 3020
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:51

Post by karen » 2007-10-30 13:11

什么,Dumbledore和Snape是一对? :shock:
Is it necessary for Rowling to add now that Dumbledore is gay? :huh:

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-10-30 13:19

She's saying this setup has been a part of character's background history from the start. It's been this way all along. Perhaps she was surprised that nobody ever picked up on all the clues she dropped in all the books. Mainstream popular literature, especially child and adolescent media, never deviate from the most white-bread, perfectly conservative representation of the real world, which is why no serious adult, high-profile book critics suspected it.

karen
Posts: 3020
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:51

Post by karen » 2007-10-30 13:20

Of course he's gay. Why else he's single for all his life.
But he is a wizard!!! He has higher calling in life!!! He shouldn't be thinking of earthly matter such as sex!!!

I haven't read the seventh book, but even if I had read that letter, I would just think they were being British.

dropby
Posts: 10921
Joined: 2003-11-24 12:23

Post by dropby » 2007-10-30 13:27

圣牛. :worthy: :worthy:
我倒不是不能接受他是gay, 但是我真的觉得这有必要么?
如果说单身就是证明的话, 那教变身的的那个女老师, 叫啥来着, 也是单身啊, 难道因此说明她是lesbian? 我觉得wizard和和尚, 道士, 牧师一样, 都是修道之人, 单身没啥好奇怪的.

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-10-30 13:31

这个跟必要没有关系啊,作者本来就是这么计划的,也是这么写人物的,只不过跟传统的童话故事不同而已---传统的童话故事里只有年轻的少男少女才准许有性爱。 :mrgreen:

Elysees
Posts: 6758
Joined: 2003-12-05 13:10

Post by Elysees » 2007-10-30 13:31

......Wizard跟和尚区别也太大了吧,不然你以为Harry, Ron他们都是哪儿来的。
除了是gay这个可能,当然还有所有面对儿童的书的一个共同点,除了父母和朋友的父母,老师们都是跟世俗不沾边的,单身的,除了师长没有别的角色的人物。这也解释了为什么其他的教授仿佛都没有结婚。――其实也不一定是没有结婚,只是在书里没有涉及他们的生活,所有的教授,除了等不多和斯内普,没有人以师长以外的面目出现过啊。
我自横刀向天笑,笑完我就去睡觉。

dropby
Posts: 10921
Joined: 2003-11-24 12:23

Post by dropby » 2007-10-30 13:47

嗯, 我应该把和尚改成信佛的. 不过西藏的活佛也能结婚生子, 所以看哪种和尚了. :-P

就算本来是这么设定的,罗林并没胆子直接在书里写出来。而且所有的所谓线索和暗示并不是不可以有非gay的合理解释。我问有必要么,是因为即使Dumbledore不是gay,everything still makes perfect sense to me.

声明一下我对同性恋毫无反感。Dumbledore是不是gay也不影响我对他的感觉。我只是不喜欢这件事的政治色彩和阴谋味道。

ravaged
Posts: 494
Joined: 2003-12-06 0:16

Post by ravaged » 2007-10-30 13:58

but is it subversive when no one can tell? i'm sure that's how she conceived of the character, but does it matter still when this escapes even readers with no preconceptions about homosexuality (ie me)? *shrug
Now that happy moment between the time the lie is told and when it is found out.

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-10-30 14:07

but is it subversive when no one can tell?
Good question. But now it is! So what are conservative, fundamentalist, homophobic parents to do??? :headscratch:
Last edited by Jun on 2007-10-30 14:41, edited 1 time in total.

silkworm
Posts: 4776
Joined: 2004-01-09 20:45

Post by silkworm » 2007-10-30 14:39

TIME Magazine

Outing Dumbledore
Thursday, Oct. 25, 2007 By JOHN CLOUD

When J.K. Rowling said at Carnegie Hall that Albus Dumbledore--her Aslan, her Gandalf, her Yoda--was gay, the crowd apparently sat in silence for a few seconds and then burst into wild applause. I'm still sitting in silence. I feel a bit like I did when we learned too much about Mark Foley and Larry Craig: you are not the role model I'd hoped for as a gay man.

Yes, it's nice that gays finally got a major character in the sci-fi/fantasy universe. Until now, we had been shut out of the major franchises. J.R.R. Tolkien wrote a rich supply of homoeroticism into The Lord of the Rings--all those men and hobbits and elves singing to one another during long, womanless quests. The books and their film versions feature tender scenes between Frodo and Samwise. But in the end, Sam marries Rosie and fathers 13 children. Thirteen! Got something to prove, hobbit?

Other fantasy worlds have presented gay (or at least gay-seeming) characters, but usually they are, literally, inhuman. George Lucas gave us the epicene C-3PO and the little butch R2-D2, and their Felix-Oscar dialogue suggests the banter of a couple of old queens who have been keeping intergalactic house for millenniums. But their implied homosexuality is quite safe. There is no real flesh that could actually entangle. Similarly, there was a girl-on-girl plot in 1995 on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, but let me spare you a fanboy summary by noting merely that the two girls weren't girls--they were gender-complex aliens called Trills--and they only kissed.

So along comes Rowling with Dumbledore--a human being, a wizard even, an indisputable hero and one of the most beloved figures in children's literature. Shouldn't I be happy to learn he's gay?

Yes, except: Why couldn't he tell us himself? The Potter books add up to more than 800,000 words before Dumbledore dies in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, yet Rowling couldn't spare two of those words to help define a central character's emotional identity: "I'm gay." We can only conclude that Dumbledore saw his homosexuality as shameful. His silence suggests a lack of personal integrity that is completely out of character.

I had always given the Potter books a pass on the lack of gay characters because, especially at first, they were intended for little kids. But particularly with the appearance of the long, violent later books, Rowling allowed her witches and wizards to grow up, to get zits and begin romances, to kill and die. It seemed odd that not even a minor student character at Hogwarts was gay, especially since Rowling was so p.c. about inventing magical creatures of different races and species, incomes, national origins and developmental abilities. In a typical passage, Blaise Zabini is described as a "tall black boy with high cheekbones and long, slanting eyes." Would it have been so difficult to write a line in which Zabini takes the exquisitely named Justin Finch-Fletchley to the Yule Ball?

And then there's Dumbledore himself. Sure, he's heroic. His twinkling eyes, his flowing manteau, his unfailing wisdom--Rowling made it impossible not to revere him. But here is a gay man as desexed as any priest--and, to uncomfortably extend the analogy, whose greatest emotional bond is with an adolescent boy: scarred, orphaned, needy Harry. Rowling said that in her conception of his character, Dumbledore had fallen in love with Gellert Grindelwald long ago, when the two were just teenagers. But Grindelwald turned out to be evil--Rowling's Hitler, in fact--which apparently broke Dumbledore's heart.

As far as we know, Dumbledore had no fully realized romance in all his 115 years--just a lifetime spent around children and, for the seven years we know him, a fascination with the boy Potter. That's pathetic and frustratingly stereotypical. It's difficult to believe someone as wise and sane as Dumbledore couldn't find at least one wizard his age to take to the Three Broomsticks.

Am I making too much of this? Undoubtedly. Some of the best Star Trek fan fiction involves steamy Kirk-Spock love affairs. So it will be with the Potter world, as Rowling has acknowledged. We are now all free to imagine a gay life more whole and fulfilling than the one Rowling gave Dumbledore. But it would have been better if she had just let the old girl rest in peace.

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-10-30 14:45

Gee, greedy little bastard. :mrgreen:

Elysees
Posts: 6758
Joined: 2003-12-05 13:10

Post by Elysees » 2007-10-30 14:51

The Lord of the Rings--all those men and hobbits and elves singing to one another during long, womanless quests. The books and their film versions feature tender scenes between Frodo and Samwise. But in the end, Sam marries Rosie and fathers 13 children. Thirteen! Got something to prove, hobbit?
这话笑得我直打跌。
我自横刀向天笑,笑完我就去睡觉。

karen
Posts: 3020
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:51

Post by karen » 2007-10-30 15:00

Jun wrote:
but is it subversive when no one can tell?
Good question. But now it is! So what are conservative, fundamentalist, homophobic parents to do??? :headscratch:
It seems you like it better now Harry Potter is made into a politic statement, just to spite the fundamentalists. :huh:

Elysees
Posts: 6758
Joined: 2003-12-05 13:10

Post by Elysees » 2007-10-30 15:04

Yes, except: Why couldn't he tell us himself?
这点我不太能同意,书里就没啥场景可以让他出柜啊。人总不能莫名其妙的开口说,hey, by the way, i'm gay.

哎,啥时候柯南道尔活转过来让福尔摩斯说他爱的是花生我就圆满了。 :cool2:
我自横刀向天笑,笑完我就去睡觉。

笑嘻嘻
Posts: 23308
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:00

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2007-10-30 15:23

我只能说这真是个出柜的时代。先甭管有没有柜子,柜子里有没有个骨架,反正出柜是健康正常而时尚的。 :roll:
云浆未饮结成冰

dropby
Posts: 10921
Joined: 2003-11-24 12:23

Post by dropby » 2007-10-30 15:33

Elysees wrote:
Yes, except: Why couldn't he tell us himself?
这点我不太能同意,书里就没啥场景可以让他出柜啊。人总不能莫名其妙的开口说,hey, by the way, i'm gay.

哎,啥时候柯南道尔活转过来让福尔摩斯说他爱的是花生我就圆满了。 :cool2:
怎么没有啊? 如果他和Gellert真的是lovers的话,最后一本里讲他们两的故事时不能说么?反正我看到的只是友谊.同性之间年少时的友谊也可以很热烈啊.绝大多数人可都没看出来他们的信是情书.情书长什么样我觉得自己还是有点概念的.如果只有希望福尔摩斯爱的是花生的人才看得出来他们是爱人不是朋友的话,我只能说罗林塑造人物可不怎么成功啊.

我觉得有个原教旨父母又喜欢这书的小孩子满可怜的.不过话说回来,这套书本来给小孩子看也有点太黑暗了.话再说回来,格林童话不也挺黑暗的?包括很多安徒生的东东,细想起来也是挺黑暗的.

wuliaotou
Posts: 349
Joined: 2005-08-02 20:50

Post by wuliaotou » 2007-10-30 16:10

作为一个母亲,我不喜欢童话世界充满模糊不明的灰色地带。童话故事就应该天是蓝的花是红的,狼是坏的狗是忠的。

如果太早让小孩子接触灰色地带,好人不再完全是好人,坏人也有诚实可靠的地方,那么用什么来教育孩子?

但是现在看看shrek之类的动画,只能很沮丧的说,等他到12岁以后再给说了。

CAVA
Posts: 8169
Joined: 2003-12-06 16:55

Post by CAVA » 2007-10-30 16:11

Jun wrote:Did you suspect Dumbledore's orientation before Rawling announced it?
I did :!:

引用我老10月21日的博:
YAHOO新闻刚刚发表,JK Rowling正式公开承认Dumbledore校长是同性恋。读HP7时曾有点小疑心,不过该书里对邓校长的性格大揭露,反使这个细节很快被忘记了。

其实一个人是不是同性恋跟他/她的为人有什么相干呢?也无法单用性取向来解释艺术家的成就吧。至少我不会因为这一条,对某个人发生更多或更少的兴趣。Gay和camp(娘娘腔)是很有区别的,后者才比较让人受不了。

CAVA
Posts: 8169
Joined: 2003-12-06 16:55

Post by CAVA » 2007-10-30 16:19

Elysees wrote:......Wizard跟和尚区别也太大了吧,不然你以为Harry, Ron他们都是哪儿来的。
除了是gay这个可能,当然还有所有面对儿童的书的一个共同点,除了父母和朋友的父母,老师们都是跟世俗不沾边的,单身的,除了师长没有别的角色的人物。这也解释了为什么其他的教授仿佛都没有结婚。――其实也不一定是没有结婚,只是在书里没有涉及他们的生活,所有的教授,除了等不多和斯内普,没有人以师长以外的面目出现过啊。
Wizard不是宗教,只是有异于普通人的能力而已。Lupin后来就结婚了么。老邓对那谁很有可能是单恋。说他是gay,只是人物的一个肌理而已,i.e. 他对女性没有兴趣。

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-10-30 16:41

根据我看到的报道哈,JK Rawling 在这几次的活动中爆了很多人物的料,不仅是Dumbledore,还有其他人物的背景等等。据说呢,她打算写一本考据/字典,类似JRR Tolkien 的索引,解释书中的各种人物背景和魔法等等,她在小说里不能包括的内容。当然你可以想象,其他的爆料无人报道,被报道炒得热火朝天的只是Dumbledore是同性恋的新闻。所以“有必要吗?”这个问题的答案是:有,还有新书要卖呢。

至于作者担当起fan fiction的角色,写完了故事还提供编外情节,在艺术上是否明智,那是见人见智的问题。很多作者写编外,好象JRR Tolkien,或者金庸,不停地搞修正主义。我自己的趣味与他们的选择无关,这是作者的自由。
It seems you like it better now Harry Potter is made into a politic statement, just to spite the fundamentalists.
有道理,不过我还是不打算看HP小说。就是对此类小说没兴趣,连电影都没让我提起任何兴趣。而且还是系列书!HP是政治宣言吗?爆出D校长的方向是政治宣言吗?或许某种理论可以说,作者故意在小说里不明说,勾引上了成千上万的小书迷,现在才公布,可见是为了用糖衣炮弹诱骗腐化小孩子的阴谋。我不认为JKR的动机是政治的,毕竟D校长又不是主角,花一二十年写的书就是为了表达一个政治立场?

但是我看这件事的角度倒有点social and cultural slant,这个我承认。或许正因为我根本不看HP也不是扇子,没有感情投资,才觉得整个的热闹和争议很amusing。为什么读者对D校长是同性恋这件事那么反应强烈,如果爆的料是某男老师同某女老师过去曾经是爱人呢?大家还会这么强烈地反感吗?我觉得这个现象很有意思。我承认我的立场是比较同情同性恋受到的歧视,比较不赞同反对同性恋的态度。不过我更感兴趣的是大众的热烈反响和gut reaction 而不是这事本身。

或许是因为我自己没有孩子对孩子也没兴趣。强烈的反应下面的基本焦虑是不是一个被普遍接受的说法:“同性恋比别人更容易引诱和腐蚀小孩子”?
Last edited by Jun on 2007-10-30 17:07, edited 1 time in total.

CAVA
Posts: 8169
Joined: 2003-12-06 16:55

Post by CAVA » 2007-10-30 16:51

或许正因为我根本不看HP也不是扇子,没有感情投资,才觉得整个的热闹和争议很amusing
我抗拒看HP很多年,在第六本发表的时候一看不可收拾。开始是受逃离主义世界的吸引,后来觉得语气讽刺得好玩,再后来就对人物有感情了,虽然其中的主要人物一个也不喜欢。如果要勉强喜欢一个,大概算是Lupin,或者Maggie Smith演的老太太教授。

真看了第7本书的人,对邓校长的性格早该彻底迷糊/觉悟了,gay只是其中一小部分而已,有什么好争议的。

dropby
Posts: 10921
Joined: 2003-11-24 12:23

Post by dropby » 2007-10-30 17:07

CAVA你真厉害.看来我的确是没有gaydar.

我倒不是说罗林本身有什么政治目的, 但是这件事情本身无可避免地会卷入政治. 我不信罗林暴料之前对引起这么大的反应没有预料. 我的反感其实大概主要还是阿登说的原因, 为什么要把小孩子的世界搞得那么复杂呢?

“同性恋比别人更容易引诱和腐蚀小孩子”当然是我不同意的想法. 但是暴料如果是某男老师同某女老师过去曾经是爱人, 我肯定没反应. 或者暴料不是小孩子看的书我也没反映. 问题在于这个世界对同性恋的接受程度还是很成问题的一回事, 而小孩子自己做不了主, 必须得听大人的.

如果有必要否问的是卖新书的话, 当然是肯定了. 问的是人物塑造和欣赏的话, 我还是觉得没必要. 所以我仍然会问笑笑说的究竟"有没有柜子,柜子里有没有个骨架". CAVA这么说让我感觉好点了. 晚上回家复习去.

我挺喜欢看这书的, 不过谈不上是扇子. 最后一本尤其令人失望.

karen
Posts: 3020
Joined: 2003-11-22 18:51

Post by karen » 2007-10-30 17:37

对,我同意dropby的说法。 我的不满不是针对Dumbledore的性取向(who cares? Gay wizard is not my cup of tea, but fine by me), 而是作者这么做画蛇添足。

simonsun
Posts: 2663
Joined: 2006-12-24 4:41

Post by simonsun » 2007-10-30 17:37

CAVA wrote:Gay和camp(娘娘腔)是很有区别的,后者才比较让人受不了。
Camp可不是娘娘腔的意思哦,娘娘腔大部分也不是camp。
Violent delights.

ravaged
Posts: 494
Joined: 2003-12-06 0:16

Post by ravaged » 2007-10-30 18:11

agree with dropby/karen. to me the conception of a story is only meaningful if it adds texture to the original text, not when it's an arbitrary piece of knowledge that makes readers go back and search for "clues." reading should not not a treasure hunt based on an externality but primarily a process of discovery and interaction with the text. (frankly i also don't think HP is worth all that trouble but of course i'm not an avid fan.)

the reaction is interesting, sure, but also completely predictable. i don't like it when homosexuality is reduced to a mere button that people push randomly to get a rise out of others - not that rowling is doing that, but that's what this issue will surely become.
Now that happy moment between the time the lie is told and when it is found out.

krycek
Posts: 36
Joined: 2006-01-21 22:32

Post by krycek » 2007-10-30 22:46

前一段JKR不是还威胁要起诉网上的slash侵权吗,估计是受刺激了,决定搞一个官方版本,以堵住一切同人的可能性。

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-10-31 7:42

agree with dropby/karen. to me the conception of a story is only meaningful if it adds texture to the original text, not when it's an arbitrary piece of knowledge that makes readers go back and search for "clues." reading should not not a treasure hunt based on an externality but primarily a process of discovery and interaction with the text. (frankly i also don't think HP is worth all that trouble but of course i'm not an avid fan.)
In serious literature, it's a valid criticism. In the fantasy genre, no.

I don't read fantasies myself, but I read sci fi and there are a lot of overlapping readers who straddle both genre. I know a bit about the genre.

I'd be surprised if the majority of published fantasy novels are not series. One of the characteristics of the genre is to build an alternative universe in which a core set of main characters move around, and the story can go on and on and on. The author (and fans, through fan fics) can add prequels, sequels, lateral accessory stories in any direction. The fans almost participate in the universe like they participate in a virtual reality game.

The earliest example of building an entire alternative world (that I know of) is JRR Tolkien's LOTR series. All his explanatory notes about the details of the Middle World can be considered "arbitrary piece of knowledge that makes readers go back and search for clues." They don't really contribute to the story arch or characters. They only serve to build up this world and the operating rules. It's a very common (and old) tradition in fantasies.

The same convention is seen in comic books, anime, and occasionally mysteries. Sci fi sometimes do this too, but usually in a straight series rather than spin-off characters. I almost never read these serial epics built within their own worlds/universes (too much commitment).

Personally I prefer restrained and confined character description with a lot of blank space for me to fill in. That's why I love Holmes and refuse to read any fan fic or anything by later authors. My Holmes is the mysterious, asexual guy living on Baker Street with an unknown blood line (French grandmother?) and only a brother. That's it. I don't want to know more.

But the rules and conventions in the fantasy genre are somewhat different, and so are fans' expectations. Nothing is ever totally over.

That is not to say serialized epics or never-ending fantasies are necessarily cheap popcorn books. A lot of serious readers may consider most fantasy novels to be of little artistic value (including HP), but not all of them are so. George RR Martin's Ice and Fire series, set in an alternative universe, have been hailed as a major literary achievement. Doris Lessing has written borderline fantasies.

I think Rawling will spin off (or sell the rights to allow others to spin off) a number of characters (not necessarily the homosexual Dumbledore) and continue writing stories within the universe.

Also, I doubt the horrors over Dumbledore's homosexuality is nearly as heated in the UK.

森林的火焰
Posts: 2913
Joined: 2005-09-08 9:45
Contact:

Post by 森林的火焰 » 2007-10-31 9:13

邓不多校长已经老到他的性取向不再是一件值得关注的事的程度了,当然,小E争辨说:也可以发掘一下他老人家年轻的时候的内心嘛。
对保守派家长来说,Harry Potter这本书就够他们操心的了,全是魔法和巫术,全是他们认为诡异邪恶的东西。。。邓校长是否同性恋这回事,已经债多不愁了。
http://harps.yculblog.com
搬家了搬家了

CAVA
Posts: 8169
Joined: 2003-12-06 16:55

Post by CAVA » 2007-10-31 14:58

Also, I doubt the horrors over Dumbledore's homosexuality is nearly as heated in the UK.
It's not.

据说在拍5还是6的电影时,剧本里出现了女生仰慕小邓的情节。Rowling知道后,悄悄给传了话,说老邓是如此这般的,所以该情节被很快删除。记者会的时候,有人问老邓是不是gay,她就说是的。

认识的人里有gay,就是现在西方的普通生活。十三四岁的学生谈恋爱,为什么没有人站出来说对孩子有坏影响?啊有的,中国有些家长就抱怨过。

也许就是这样简单而已,也许是我想得不够复杂:既然她保持沉默多年,为什么突然讲了这许多话?

说实在的,HP的文学成就值得商榷,企图做statement也不是一两次,爱与勇气战胜一切,嘿嘿。

dropby
Posts: 10921
Joined: 2003-11-24 12:23

Post by dropby » 2007-10-31 16:06

加拿大同性恋婚姻是合法的. 可是我接触过的教徒们, 包括我平常觉得很开明很宽容的,都是非常不接受不宽容的. 有一位说到这个话题时, 我试图跟她讲山羊也有同性恋, 所以同性恋可以是天生的。她就跟我扯所谓科学如何不可靠,牛顿定律如何被爱因斯坦推翻了,所以所谓山羊也有同性恋的科学研究如何不可信.说到这儿我意识到我们根本就生活在不同的世界,最明智的做法就是别跟她扯了,所以我就狼狈逃走了.对于这样的家长来说,邓校长是否同性恋这回事,绝对不会是债多不愁.

我没觉得HP有多高的文学成就,我就是很佩服罗林的想象力.对我来说看HP和看武侠小说差不多的意思.尤其是第七本看得我不耐烦,Potter这么多年一点长进都没有,犯的错误全都是重蹈覆辙,而且是不知道第几遍的覆辙.然后呢,Potter最后能不死完全没有说服力,觉得完全是因为作者舍不得他死,所以七拐八弯牵强附会地让他活下来了.我因为本来觉得Potter一定得死,刚拿到书的时候先看结局居然没有死,就很期待究竟是怎么死里逃生的。看完了以后真是大失所望。

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-11-02 6:48

Hey, maybe I have prophetic power and should start buying lottery tickets! Here's a column I saw today on Salon.com.
I'm addicted to Harry Potter fan fiction!
Every moment I'm alone, I'm secretly reading the stories, the forums, the recommendations. I can't stop!

By Cary Tennis

Nov. 02, 2007 | Dear Cary,

I am in my 30s, finished my Ph.D. dissertation recently, teaching classes at universities, applying for jobs, and have two kids under 10 years old with my husband. In fact, I should be too busy to be writing to you.

The problem is that I'm addicted to fan fiction. Especially a small fraction of online fan fiction, with which you may or may not be familiar, but has a fanatical group of followers. Yes, I'm an HP fan-fiction groupie. I know that there are various fan-fiction communities online, but I've been addicted with the Harry Potter fandom ever since I couldn't wait for Book 5 to come out and started searching for any news about it on the Internet.

Now this has become a serious habit -- on good days, I simply check out a few of my favorite fan-fiction sites and skim the updated stories (you know, some of them run for 50 to 60 chapters); on bad days, I go through the forums and read the comments and recommendations until I find something that piques my interest, and will not stop until I'm done with that story. If I don't find anything I like, I search until I do, or get mad, or end up clicking through dozens of sites, which will inevitably leave me frustrated. (Salon is one of them, sorry -- what do you expect, in the current political atmosphere?)

How did I manage to survive so far? My husband does not know of my habit, nor do my kids; although with my elder one, we read the books together and sometimes discuss Harry Potter; I sometimes try to explain some concepts to my child using Harry or Ron as an example -- nothing extraordinary. But once I'm alone at home, I'll start clicking, and I can't stop. Only when I'm out of the house, working where someone else is present, have I been able to do my other work, and that's how I've been able to manage my workload so far.

I've tried to understand my fascination with this; I think partly it's the "magic," a wonderful concept for the imagination. Also I'm a Ron/Hermione shipper (a term that means I'm happy with their relationship), and the stories surrounding the Ron/Hermione dynamics are sometimes so poignant, I tend to fall in love all over with the characters and become so envious of their (imagined) relationship. There are a lot of good stories, mind you, quite a few geared toward the over-19 group, but I'm not really picky about what I read, as long as it's well structured and well written and not OOC (that's Out Of Character). I've never participated in the forums or written fan fiction myself, but I sometimes dream about it -- I feel like I know the writers better than some of my friends.

I've tried cutting off the Internet, not staying home when I'm alone, limiting myself to a certain amount of time, but they haven't worked. Do I need psychological help or therapy? Am I secretly harboring some type of dissent with my current life and expressing it through this destructive pattern of Web surfing? Or am I just procrastinating and not motivated enough to get my arse back to work?

Ardent R/H Shipper
I have known people who were into fan fiction, mostly in college. It can be addictive indeed.

Note this is fan fic not slash fic. Fan fiction far predates slash.

CAVA
Posts: 8169
Joined: 2003-12-06 16:55

Post by CAVA » 2007-11-02 8:51

Do I need psychological help or therapy?
需要吗?她的症状跟大多数泡论坛的人差不多嘛。据说联网玩游戏才真的叫上瘾呢。

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-11-02 9:13

The medical community recently contemplated making computer game addiction into a formal diagnosis. Some believe it is pretty much the same as other forms of addiction and should be treated with at least behavioral therapy (training a person to change his or her destructive habit). The mainstream psychiatry has not accepted this definition.

猫咪头
Posts: 403
Joined: 2003-12-05 9:38

Post by 猫咪头 » 2007-11-02 11:09

Jun, this is important: have you googled: "jon stewart RPS " ? :renske:

Jun
Posts: 27816
Joined: 2003-12-15 11:43

Post by Jun » 2007-11-02 11:48

NO! I'll do it now! Thanks! :heartpump:

Oh, no! Now you've made me laugh uncontrollably at work! :fish001:

Post Reply